From brandorr at opensolaris.org  Sat Sep  1 21:23:24 2007
From: brandorr at opensolaris.org (Brandorr)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 15:23:24 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] I ran into an error while upgrading 'all' (CSWapache
	partially failed)
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780709011218p2bdf0dd4q58499b8a480ca5f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b5090780709011218p2bdf0dd4q58499b8a480ca5f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b5090780709011223o3b3e477am5403654af865bcc8@mail.gmail.com>

/opt/csw/apache/securedocs/index.html.CSW
[ verifying class <none> ]
## Executing postinstall script.
/var/sadm/pkg/CSWapache/install/postinstall: syntax error at line 46:
`;;' unexpected
pkgadd: ERROR: postinstall script did not complete successfully

Installation of <CSWapache> partially failed.
ERROR: could not add CSWapache.

--
- Brian Gupta

http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nycosug/


-- 
- Brian Gupta

http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nycosug/


From mats.larsson at ericsson.com  Mon Sep  3 12:02:12 2007
From: mats.larsson at ericsson.com (Mats Larsson)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 12:02:12 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] I ran into an error while upgrading 'all'
 (CSWapache partially failed)
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780709011223o3b3e477am5403654af865bcc8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b5090780709011218p2bdf0dd4q58499b8a480ca5f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<5b5090780709011223o3b3e477am5403654af865bcc8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46DBDBA4.5040802@ericsson.com>

On 2007-09-01 21:23, Brandorr wrote:
> /opt/csw/apache/securedocs/index.html.CSW
> [ verifying class <none> ]
> ## Executing postinstall script.
> /var/sadm/pkg/CSWapache/install/postinstall: syntax error at line 46:
> `;;' unexpected
> pkgadd: ERROR: postinstall script did not complete successfully
>
> Installation of <CSWapache> partially failed.
> ERROR: could not add CSWapache.

Same problem here :(


From ghenry at cmi.univ-mrs.fr  Thu Sep  6 14:33:11 2007
From: ghenry at cmi.univ-mrs.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard_Henry?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 14:33:11 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Firefox 2.0.0.5: trouble with run-mozilla.sh?
Message-ID: <46DFF387.1020805@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>

hello all,
i'm using firefox and saw this error in a terminal:
run-mozilla.sh: Cannot execute /opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/lib/mozilla-bin.

run-mozilla.sh is in /opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/lib, and there is no 
mozilla-bin in CSWfirefox, but /opt/csw/lib/mozilla/mozilla-bin in 
CSWmozilla

Is it normal?

gerard


From william at wbonnet.net  Thu Sep  6 23:30:35 2007
From: william at wbonnet.net (William Bonnet)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:30:35 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Firefox 2.0.0.5: trouble with run-mozilla.sh?
In-Reply-To: <46DFF387.1020805@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>
References: <46DFF387.1020805@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>
Message-ID: <46E0717B.5080705@wbonnet.net>

Hi G?rard
> i'm using firefox and saw this error in a terminal:
> run-mozilla.sh: Cannot execute /opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/lib/mozilla-bin.
>   
That should not happen... can you reproduce this systematically  ?
> run-mozilla.sh is in /opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/lib, and there is no 
> mozilla-bin in CSWfirefox, but /opt/csw/lib/mozilla/mozilla-bin in 
> CSWmozilla
>
> Is it normal?
>   
Yes it is, the binary run by the script is firefox-bin. It seems it has 
been found for some reason. Can you please check that you run either
/opt/csw/bin/firefox or  /opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/bin/firefox (the first 
one is a symlink to the second).

Could you please send me (in private or not) the output of the following 
command :

bash -x /opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/bin/firefox

You should see the following line at the end of the execution :

+ /opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/lib/run-mozilla.sh 
/opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/lib/firefox-bin

Cheers

-- 
William                  http://www.wbonnet.net

http://www.sunwizard.net Le site fran?ais des amateurs de stations Unix
http://www.blastwave.org An OpenSolaris Community Site
http://www.guses.org     French speaking Solaris User Group




From magrawal at coba.usf.edu  Fri Sep  7 17:47:19 2007
From: magrawal at coba.usf.edu (Manish Agrawal)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 11:47:19 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] apache2 and php5 error
In-Reply-To: <f05666f00707200421r41c2ba07of6df0c9de8f03578@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f05666f00707200421r41c2ba07of6df0c9de8f03578@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.tyajg5sgz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>

You also need the php5 package.

Manish

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 07:21:43 -0400, Roberto Pereyra <pereyra.roberto at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello
>
> I just installed apache2 and ap2_modphp5 in my Solaris 10 server.
> Apache works fine but php not works, if I open a php page, it are blank.
>
> There are a bug in ap2_modphp5 package ?
>
> I have the default blastwave apache2-modphp5 config.
>
> roberto
>
>



-- 
Manish Agrawal
Asstt. Prof., Dept. of ISDS, Univ. of South Florida
4202 E. Fowler Ave., CIS 1040, Tampa, Fl 33620 - 7800, U.S.A.
(813)-974-6716 (W) 974-6749 (FAX) magrawal at coba.usf.edu
http://coba.usf.edu/departments/isds/faculty/agrawal/index.html
--


From magrawal at coba.usf.edu  Fri Sep  7 17:55:51 2007
From: magrawal at coba.usf.edu (Manish Agrawal)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 11:55:51 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Apache/php issue
In-Reply-To: <C2D4E66D.21E7%jwakeman@coe.drexel.edu>
References: <C2D4E66D.21E7%jwakeman@coe.drexel.edu>
Message-ID: <op.tyajvdn6z3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>

You also need the ap2_modphp5 package - I think it will do the integration of php into apache

Manish


On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:15:25 -0400, Jeremy Wakeman <jwakeman at coe.drexel.edu> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've got apache 2.2.4 and php 5.2.1 installed on my sun server (5.10).  I
> can't seem to get php scripts to work correctly on the server.  I've tried a
> few different settings in the httpd.conf file (since several howto/help
> sites have conflicting info), but I believe I now have it configured
> correctly.
>
> The script I'm using to test php is here:
> http://webmail.ece.drexel.edu/test.php  It just runs phpinfo(), but even
> that simple script isn't working.
>
> I'll stick a bunch of my httpd checks and excerpts from the config file.
>
> BTW, one of the websites I found mentioned that php files should have
> content-type headers of text/plain.  Is that correct (that's what I've got,
> now)?
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> -Jeremy Wakeman
>
>
> /opt/csw/apache2/sbin/httpd -t
> Syntax OK
>
>
> /opt/csw/apache2/sbin/httpd -v
> Server version: Apache/2.2.4 (Unix)
> Server built:   Feb 19 2007 00:20:08
>
>
> /opt/csw/apache2/sbin/httpd -V
> Server version: Apache/2.2.4 (Unix)
> Server built:   Feb 19 2007 00:20:08
> Server's Module Magic Number: 20051115:4
> Server loaded:  APR 1.2.8, APR-Util 1.2.8
> Compiled using: APR 1.2.8, APR-Util 1.2.8
> Architecture:   32-bit
> Server MPM:     Prefork
>   threaded:     no
>     forked:     yes (variable process count)
> Server compiled with....
>  -D APACHE_MPM_DIR="server/mpm/prefork"
>  -D APR_HAS_SENDFILE
>  -D APR_HAS_MMAP
>  -D APR_HAVE_IPV6 (IPv4-mapped addresses enabled)
>  -D APR_USE_FCNTL_SERIALIZE
>  -D APR_USE_PTHREAD_SERIALIZE
>  -D SINGLE_LISTEN_UNSERIALIZED_ACCEPT
>  -D APR_HAS_OTHER_CHILD
>  -D AP_HAVE_RELIABLE_PIPED_LOGS
>  -D DYNAMIC_MODULE_LIMIT=128
>  -D HTTPD_ROOT="/opt/csw/apache2"
>  -D SUEXEC_BIN="/opt/csw/apache2/sbin/suexec"
>  -D DEFAULT_PIDLOG="/var/run/httpd.pid"
>  -D DEFAULT_SCOREBOARD="logs/apache_runtime_status"
>  -D DEFAULT_LOCKFILE="/var/run/accept.lock"
>  -D DEFAULT_ERRORLOG="logs/error_log"
>  -D AP_TYPES_CONFIG_FILE="etc/mime.types"
>  -D SERVER_CONFIG_FILE="etc/httpd.conf"
>
>
> /opt/csw/apache2/sbin/httpd -S
> VirtualHost configuration:
>          default server portal.ece.drexel.edu
> (/opt/csw/apache2/etc/includes/portal.ece.drexel.edu.conf:1)
>          port 80 namevhost portal.ece.drexel.edu
> (/opt/csw/apache2/etc/includes/portal.ece.drexel.edu.conf:1)
>          port 80 namevhost webmail.ece.drexel.edu
> (/opt/csw/apache2/etc/includes/webmail.ece.drexel.edu.conf:1)
> Syntax OK
>
>
> /opt/csw/apache2/sbin/httpd -M
> Loaded Modules:
>  core_module (static)
>  mpm_prefork_module (static)
>  http_module (static)
>  so_module (static)
>  authn_file_module (shared)
>  authn_dbm_module (shared)
>  authn_anon_module (shared)
>  authn_default_module (shared)
>  authn_alias_module (shared)
>  authz_host_module (shared)
>  authz_groupfile_module (shared)
>  authz_user_module (shared)
>  authz_dbm_module (shared)
>  authz_owner_module (shared)
>  authnz_ldap_module (shared)
>  authz_default_module (shared)
>  auth_basic_module (shared)
>  auth_digest_module (shared)
>  include_module (shared)
>  deflate_module (shared)
>  ldap_module (shared)
>  log_config_module (shared)
>  env_module (shared)
>  mime_magic_module (shared)
>  expires_module (shared)
>  headers_module (shared)
>  setenvif_module (shared)
>  mime_module (shared)
>  status_module (shared)
>  autoindex_module (shared)
>  info_module (shared)
>  cgi_module (shared)
>  negotiation_module (shared)
>  dir_module (shared)
>  actions_module (shared)
>  userdir_module (shared)
>  alias_module (shared)
>  rewrite_module (shared)
>  php5_module (shared)
> Syntax OK
>
>
> # This is the main Apache HTTP server configuration file.  It contains the
> # configuration directives that give the server its instructions.
> # See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2> for detailed information.
> # In particular, see
> # <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/directives.html>
> # for a discussion of each configuration directive.
>
> <snip>
>
> <IfModule dir_module>
>     DirectoryIndex index.pl index.html awstats.pl index.php
> </IfModule>
>
> <snip>
>
> # php stuff
>
> LoadModule    php5_module                libexec/libphp5.so
> Addhandler    application/x-httpd-php            .php
>
> <snip>
>
> <VirtualHost *:80>
>     ServerAlias webmail.ece.drexel.edu
>     ServerAlias webmail.coe.drexel.edu
>     ServerName webmail.ece.drexel.edu
>     ScriptAlias /cgi/ "/web/webmail/cgi/"
>     DirectoryIndex index.php
>         DocumentRoot /web/webmail
>         TransferLog /var/log/http/webmail/access_log
>         ErrorLog /var/log/http/webmail/error_log
> </VirtualHost>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>



-- 
Manish Agrawal
Asstt. Prof., Dept. of ISDS, Univ. of South Florida
4202 E. Fowler Ave., CIS 1040, Tampa, Fl 33620 - 7800, U.S.A.
(813)-974-6716 (W) 974-6749 (FAX) magrawal at coba.usf.edu
http://coba.usf.edu/departments/isds/faculty/agrawal/index.html
--


From gwyche at io.com  Fri Sep  7 18:39:00 2007
From: gwyche at io.com (George Wyche)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:39:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Which SUN* pkg supplanted by CSW* pkg?
Message-ID: <1353.66.90.167.124.1189183140.squirrel@webmail.io.com>

@all

I am just going through Solaris 10 8/07 "upgrade". I marked "custom" and I
see a lot of packages that I know duplicate what I am now getting from
Blastwave.

I omitted a lot of those. However, I bet I missed a bunch. I can easily
review the packages I have added via Blastwave.

Do we have a way of knowing which SUNW* packages may be removed each time
we add a Blastwave package? Depending on a  simple phrase in the pkg name
leaves me uneasy about doing a pkgrm of a SUNW pkg with the same phrase.

I can guess that there is not necessarily a one for one match up. There
might not even be a SUNW(group) to CSW(group) match up. Where a match up
DOES occur, I want to pkgrm the SUNW version.

Any advise?

ggw



From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep  7 19:24:17 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 13:24:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Which SUN* pkg supplanted by CSW* pkg?
In-Reply-To: <1353.66.90.167.124.1189183140.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
References: <1353.66.90.167.124.1189183140.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
Message-ID: <33093.72.39.216.186.1189185857.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> @all
>
> I am just going through Solaris 10 8/07 "upgrade". I marked "custom" and I
> see a lot of packages that I know duplicate what I am now getting from
> Blastwave.
>
> I omitted a lot of those. However, I bet I missed a bunch. I can easily
> review the packages I have added via Blastwave.
>
> Do we have a way of knowing which SUNW* packages may be removed each time
> we add a Blastwave package? Depending on a  simple phrase in the pkg name
> leaves me uneasy about doing a pkgrm of a SUNW pkg with the same phrase.
>
> I can guess that there is not necessarily a one for one match up. There
> might not even be a SUNW(group) to CSW(group) match up. Where a match up
> DOES occur, I want to pkgrm the SUNW version.
>
> Any advise?
>
> ggw

You have hit a big issue. I too was looking at the new Solaris 10 release
and I took note also of the new Companion DVD which has a whopping 119
packages on it as well as a version of KDE from 2004.

All joking aside we have a lot of overlap and that is because we are still
supporting Solaris 8 as well as getting more up to date software out the
door for Solaris 10 users.

Making a comparison map .. sounds like a great weekend project for me.

-
Dennis Clarke



From gwyche at io.com  Fri Sep  7 19:50:33 2007
From: gwyche at io.com (George Wyche)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:50:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Which SUN* pkg supplanted by CSW* pkg?
In-Reply-To: <33093.72.39.216.186.1189185857.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <1353.66.90.167.124.1189183140.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<33093.72.39.216.186.1189185857.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <1636.66.90.167.124.1189187433.squirrel@webmail.io.com>

@Dennis
Kudos to you. Last week I followed your blow by blow Solaris 10
installation. THAT is the kind of installation hand holding I crave.

Thanks! Hope you didn't OD on caffine.
George Wyche


>
> Making a comparison map .. sounds like a great weekend project for me.
>
> -
> Dennis Clarke




From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep  7 20:28:52 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:28:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Which SUN* pkg supplanted by CSW* pkg?
In-Reply-To: <1636.66.90.167.124.1189187433.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
References: <1353.66.90.167.124.1189183140.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<33093.72.39.216.186.1189185857.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<1636.66.90.167.124.1189187433.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
Message-ID: <33215.72.39.216.186.1189189732.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> @Dennis
> Kudos to you. Last week I followed your blow by blow Solaris 10
> installation. THAT is the kind of installation hand holding I crave.
>
> Thanks! Hope you didn't OD on caffine.

ha ha !

I was a mess after that .. it took a LOT of hours to do and now I need to
update it for Solaris 10 Uptade 4 and for Solaris Express which will release
next week sometime. The snv_70b should make for a sweet install.

I will also write up docs on how to install Studio 11 and Studio 12 into the
same machine and then give a blow by blow step by step on how to compile a
complex package like GCC 4.2.1 and make a SVR4 package for it.

That will take a month of work possible.

-
Dennis Clarke



From cargdrac at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  7 21:45:25 2007
From: cargdrac at hotmail.com (Mauricio Cerna)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:45:25 +0000
Subject: [csw-users] Apache/php issue
In-Reply-To: <op.tyajvdn6z3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <BLU116-F9A9960A9D2CC3184CC1FDCCC50@phx.gbl>

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From mcse47 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 11 15:04:39 2007
From: mcse47 at hotmail.com (Tracey Flanders)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:04:39 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave Package
	Installation
Message-ID: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>

I was wonder, does it make sense to install the minimal Solaris 10 OS 
packages and then install only the blastwave software packages. For 
instance, if I wanted the gnome enviroment. I would install Solaris without 
gnome then install it with 'pkg-get install gnome' after setting up the 
blastwave pkg-gt.conf file. I ask because my gnome setup is acting up where 
the gnome-panels don't load.  I assume  its because I have Sol10 package 
libraries and Blastwave packages where dependencies are in conflict. Any 
help is appreciated.

tflande

_________________________________________________________________
A place for moms to take a break! 
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us



From dclarke at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 11 15:18:14 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:18:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave Package
 Installation
In-Reply-To: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> I was wonder, does it make sense to install the minimal Solaris 10 OS
> packages and then install only the blastwave software packages. For
> instance, if I wanted the gnome enviroment. I would install Solaris without
> gnome then install it with 'pkg-get install gnome' after setting up the
> blastwave pkg-gt.conf file. I ask because my gnome setup is acting up where
> the gnome-panels don't load.  I assume  its because I have Sol10 package
> libraries and Blastwave packages where dependencies are in conflict. Any
> help is appreciated.
>
> tflande

I sometimes do testing like this.

If one thinks about it, the stack of software from Blastwave has pretty much
every software feature that you would get in stock Solaris 10 plus about
1000 other software packages. The libraries and dependencies are built to
resolve within the /opt/csw file tree and only link with SUN provided
packages when absolutely needed. Our build of bash is actually up to date
where the version that comes with Solaris 10 update 4 is still lagging way
behind.

The GNOME suite is very large and a lot of work goes into testing it. i have
personally poured endless nights and days into testing. It will work all on
its own stand-alone in Solaris 8 upwards.

That was always the plan.

In fact, one could easily build an OpenSolaris based distro with just core
functions in it and then drag in the Blastwave software for userland stuff.

Dennis



From zizban at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 15:22:59 2007
From: zizban at gmail.com (Chris Turkel)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:22:59 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave Package
	Installation
In-Reply-To: <60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>
	<60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <ea2809f50709110622w755d4346if3dd0de2f12898ee@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/11/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
>
>
> > I was wonder, does it make sense to install the minimal Solaris 10 OS
> > packages and then install only the blastwave software packages. For
> > instance, if I wanted the gnome enviroment. I would install Solaris
> without
> > gnome then install it with 'pkg-get install gnome' after setting up the
> > blastwave pkg-gt.conf file. I ask because my gnome setup is acting up
> where
> > the gnome-panels don't load.  I assume  its because I have Sol10 package
> > libraries and Blastwave packages where dependencies are in conflict. Any
> > help is appreciated.
> >
> > tflande
>
> I sometimes do testing like this.
>
> If one thinks about it, the stack of software from Blastwave has pretty
> much
> every software feature that you would get in stock Solaris 10 plus about
> 1000 other software packages. The libraries and dependencies are built to
> resolve within the /opt/csw file tree and only link with SUN provided
> packages when absolutely needed. Our build of bash is actually up to date
> where the version that comes with Solaris 10 update 4 is still lagging way
> behind.
>
> The GNOME suite is very large and a lot of work goes into testing it. i
> have
> personally poured endless nights and days into testing. It will work all
> on
> its own stand-alone in Solaris 8 upwards.
>
> That was always the plan.
>
> In fact, one could easily build an OpenSolaris based distro with just core
> functions in it and then drag in the Blastwave software for userland
> stuff.
>
> Dennis



I use Blasewave's Gnome all the time. It rocks. Do you know if it is
possible to install Solaris without JDS? Have two of everything eats up a
lot of disk space.

Chris
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From mcse47 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 11 15:30:16 2007
From: mcse47 at hotmail.com (Tracey Flanders)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:30:16 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave
	PackageInstallation
Message-ID: <BAY123-F24DA8052F976091FD974FDD4C10@phx.gbl>

That was my other question. Does it make sense to have 2 copies of gnome. 
I'm just trying to understand if it's needed. I come from linux background 
and understand the dependencies situation. I'm pretty new to solaris and 
would like to know what the proper build procedure for solaris 10 while 
getting the nice packages from blastwave. Blastwave seems like the only 
decent place that has the best packages available for Solaris that I am use 
to using. Thanks.

Tracey Flanders



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Chris Turkel" <zizban at gmail.com>
Reply-To: questions and discussions <users at lists.blastwave.org>
To: "questions and discussions" <users at lists.blastwave.org>
Subject: Re: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave 
PackageInstallation
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:22:59 -0400
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FILETIME=[F65878E0:01C7F476]

On 9/11/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
 >
 >
 > > I was wonder, does it make sense to install the minimal Solaris 10 OS
 > > packages and then install only the blastwave software packages. For
 > > instance, if I wanted the gnome enviroment. I would install Solaris
 > without
 > > gnome then install it with 'pkg-get install gnome' after setting up the
 > > blastwave pkg-gt.conf file. I ask because my gnome setup is acting up
 > where
 > > the gnome-panels don't load.  I assume  its because I have Sol10 
package
 > > libraries and Blastwave packages where dependencies are in conflict. 
Any
 > > help is appreciated.
 > >
 > > tflande
 >
 > I sometimes do testing like this.
 >
 > If one thinks about it, the stack of software from Blastwave has pretty
 > much
 > every software feature that you would get in stock Solaris 10 plus about
 > 1000 other software packages. The libraries and dependencies are built to
 > resolve within the /opt/csw file tree and only link with SUN provided
 > packages when absolutely needed. Our build of bash is actually up to date
 > where the version that comes with Solaris 10 update 4 is still lagging 
way
 > behind.
 >
 > The GNOME suite is very large and a lot of work goes into testing it. i
 > have
 > personally poured endless nights and days into testing. It will work all
 > on
 > its own stand-alone in Solaris 8 upwards.
 >
 > That was always the plan.
 >
 > In fact, one could easily build an OpenSolaris based distro with just 
core
 > functions in it and then drag in the Blastwave software for userland
 > stuff.
 >
 > Dennis



I use Blasewave's Gnome all the time. It rocks. Do you know if it is
possible to install Solaris without JDS? Have two of everything eats up a
lot of disk space.

Chris


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From brandorr at opensolaris.org  Tue Sep 11 16:08:30 2007
From: brandorr at opensolaris.org (Brandorr)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:08:30 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] OFFLLIST response to thread
Message-ID: <5b5090780709110708m45926c1bm308db3645d3d4c60@mail.gmail.com>

asily build an OpenSolaris based distro with just core
> functions in it and then drag in the Blastwave software for userland stuff.

If you are going to strip out all the userland stuff, would there be
any advantage over  running Nexenta? (It seems you get more packages)

Thanks,
Brian

P.S. - Are you independently wealthy? I wonder how you afford the
Blastwave stuff?

-- 
- Brian Gupta

http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nycosug/


From gwyche at io.com  Tue Sep 11 16:17:11 2007
From: gwyche at io.com (George Wyche)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:17:11 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave
 PackageInstallation
In-Reply-To: <BAY123-F24DA8052F976091FD974FDD4C10@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY123-F24DA8052F976091FD974FDD4C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <32816.66.90.167.124.1189520231.squirrel@webmail.io.com>

@Tracey
> That was my other question. Does it make sense to have 2 copies of gnome.
> I'm just trying to understand if it's needed. I come from linux background
> and understand the dependencies situation. I'm pretty new to solaris and
> would like to know what the proper build procedure for solaris 10 while
> getting the nice packages from blastwave. Blastwave seems like the only
> decent place that has the best packages available for Solaris that I am
> use
> to using. Thanks.
>
> Tracey Flanders

Well. I have now installed Solaris10 8/07 4 times and I have some advice.
Get rid of the Solaris packages AFTER you install. Figure out, which I
haven't done, how to get Solaris OS to embrace the /opt/csw tree.

#1 build: I did custom and left out Gnome, thinking to use Blastwave. Doh!
The first time I tried to log in the login screens would not complete...
Needed Gnome. Don't have it yet. I continued as console root and installed
my blastwave packages and *tried* to get the PATH to include /opt/csw, et
cetera, but obviously failed. Login screens acted just the same.

#2 build: Did upgrade, thinking to pick up Gnome from Sun. Failed. No change.

#3 build: Let Sun have their way... Bog standard install. (Just love the
UK-ism.) Login worked! Did blastwave packages. FAILED! Out of space! Doh!
The partitioning was, let us say, inconvenient.

#4 build: Custom install. Followed Dennis' Solaris10 11/06 install (even
though I use Sparc). Then (after some internet connectivity issues) loaded
on blastwave packages. SUCCESS.

George Wyche



From zizban at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 16:29:12 2007
From: zizban at gmail.com (Chris Turkel)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:29:12 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave
	PackageInstallation
In-Reply-To: <32816.66.90.167.124.1189520231.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
References: <BAY123-F24DA8052F976091FD974FDD4C10@phx.gbl>
	<32816.66.90.167.124.1189520231.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
Message-ID: <ea2809f50709110729o158f8df7sa556b3c830f6ab4c@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/11/07, George Wyche <gwyche at io.com> wrote:
>
> @Tracey
> > That was my other question. Does it make sense to have 2 copies of
> gnome.
> > I'm just trying to understand if it's needed. I come from linux
> background
> > and understand the dependencies situation. I'm pretty new to solaris and
> > would like to know what the proper build procedure for solaris 10 while
> > getting the nice packages from blastwave. Blastwave seems like the only
> > decent place that has the best packages available for Solaris that I am
> > use
> > to using. Thanks.
> >
> > Tracey Flanders
>
> Well. I have now installed Solaris10 8/07 4 times and I have some advice.
> Get rid of the Solaris packages AFTER you install. Figure out, which I
> haven't done, how to get Solaris OS to embrace the /opt/csw tree.
>
> #1 build: I did custom and left out Gnome, thinking to use Blastwave. Doh!
> The first time I tried to log in the login screens would not complete...
> Needed Gnome. Don't have it yet. I continued as console root and installed
> my blastwave packages and *tried* to get the PATH to include /opt/csw, et
> cetera, but obviously failed. Login screens acted just the same.
>
> #2 build: Did upgrade, thinking to pick up Gnome from Sun. Failed. No
> change.
>
> #3 build: Let Sun have their way... Bog standard install. (Just love the
> UK-ism.) Login worked! Did blastwave packages. FAILED! Out of space! Doh!
> The partitioning was, let us say, inconvenient.
>
> #4 build: Custom install. Followed Dennis' Solaris10 11/06 install (even
> though I use Sparc). Then (after some internet connectivity issues) loaded
> on blastwave packages. SUCCESS.
>
> George Wyche


I never read that before, thanks! I just assumed he did a standard install.
That's what I get to assuming.
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From anil.verve at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 16:35:45 2007
From: anil.verve at gmail.com (Anil Gulecha)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:05:45 +0530
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave Package
	Installation
In-Reply-To: <60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>
	<60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <148d59250709110735h791ff1dq88e9784cade3577c@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/11/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
>
> In fact, one could easily build an OpenSolaris based distro with just core
> functions in it and then drag in the Blastwave software for userland stuff.
>
Hi Dennis,

I remember you mentioning a project like this (Chinkara/gazelle)? Has
there been any progress?

Regards
Anil


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 11 18:03:55 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:03:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave
 PackageInstallation
In-Reply-To: <ea2809f50709110729o158f8df7sa556b3c830f6ab4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY123-F24DA8052F976091FD974FDD4C10@phx.gbl>
	<32816.66.90.167.124.1189520231.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<ea2809f50709110729o158f8df7sa556b3c830f6ab4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1208.72.39.216.186.1189526635.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On 9/11/07, George Wyche <gwyche at io.com> wrote:
>>
>> @Tracey
>> > That was my other question. Does it make sense to have 2 copies of
>> gnome.
>> > I'm just trying to understand if it's needed. I come from linux
>> background
>> > and understand the dependencies situation. I'm pretty new to solaris and
>> > would like to know what the proper build procedure for solaris 10 while
>> > getting the nice packages from blastwave. Blastwave seems like the only
>> > decent place that has the best packages available for Solaris that I am
>> > use
>> > to using. Thanks.
>> >
>> > Tracey Flanders
>>
>> Well. I have now installed Solaris10 8/07 4 times and I have some advice.
>> Get rid of the Solaris packages AFTER you install. Figure out, which I
>> haven't done, how to get Solaris OS to embrace the /opt/csw tree.
>>
>> #1 build: I did custom and left out Gnome, thinking to use Blastwave. Doh!
>> The first time I tried to log in the login screens would not complete...
>> Needed Gnome. Don't have it yet. I continued as console root and installed
>> my blastwave packages and *tried* to get the PATH to include /opt/csw, et
>> cetera, but obviously failed. Login screens acted just the same.
>>
>> #2 build: Did upgrade, thinking to pick up Gnome from Sun. Failed. No
>> change.
>>
>> #3 build: Let Sun have their way... Bog standard install. (Just love the
>> UK-ism.) Login worked! Did blastwave packages. FAILED! Out of space! Doh!
>> The partitioning was, let us say, inconvenient.
>>
>> #4 build: Custom install. Followed Dennis' Solaris10 11/06 install (even
>> though I use Sparc). Then (after some internet connectivity issues) loaded
>> on blastwave packages. SUCCESS.
>>
>> George Wyche
>
>
> I never read that before, thanks! I just assumed he did a standard install.
> That's what I get to assuming.

Just want to let you all know that I *know* that I need to updtae my docs on
Blastwave and ensure that people can go ahead with either x86 or Sparc with
Solaris 10 Update 4 or snv_70b ( SXDE ) and also get GNOME or XFCE or KDE
from Blastwave running neatly.

It is not obvious that you need to look at the PATH in /etc/default/login or
a few other little things.

-
Dennis Clarke



From zizban at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 18:18:31 2007
From: zizban at gmail.com (Chris Turkel)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:18:31 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave
	PackageInstallation
In-Reply-To: <1208.72.39.216.186.1189526635.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <BAY123-F24DA8052F976091FD974FDD4C10@phx.gbl>
	<32816.66.90.167.124.1189520231.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<ea2809f50709110729o158f8df7sa556b3c830f6ab4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1208.72.39.216.186.1189526635.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <ea2809f50709110918m3e13ac01q7f9d68a613890ae1@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/11/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
>
>
> > On 9/11/07, George Wyche <gwyche at io.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> @Tracey
> >> > That was my other question. Does it make sense to have 2 copies of
> >> gnome.
> >> > I'm just trying to understand if it's needed. I come from linux
> >> background
> >> > and understand the dependencies situation. I'm pretty new to solaris
> and
> >> > would like to know what the proper build procedure for solaris 10
> while
> >> > getting the nice packages from blastwave. Blastwave seems like the
> only
> >> > decent place that has the best packages available for Solaris that I
> am
> >> > use
> >> > to using. Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > Tracey Flanders
> >>
> >> Well. I have now installed Solaris10 8/07 4 times and I have some
> advice.
> >> Get rid of the Solaris packages AFTER you install. Figure out, which I
> >> haven't done, how to get Solaris OS to embrace the /opt/csw tree.
> >>
> >> #1 build: I did custom and left out Gnome, thinking to use Blastwave.
> Doh!
> >> The first time I tried to log in the login screens would not
> complete...
> >> Needed Gnome. Don't have it yet. I continued as console root and
> installed
> >> my blastwave packages and *tried* to get the PATH to include /opt/csw,
> et
> >> cetera, but obviously failed. Login screens acted just the same.
> >>
> >> #2 build: Did upgrade, thinking to pick up Gnome from Sun. Failed. No
> >> change.
> >>
> >> #3 build: Let Sun have their way... Bog standard install. (Just love
> the
> >> UK-ism.) Login worked! Did blastwave packages. FAILED! Out of space!
> Doh!
> >> The partitioning was, let us say, inconvenient.
> >>
> >> #4 build: Custom install. Followed Dennis' Solaris10 11/06 install
> (even
> >> though I use Sparc). Then (after some internet connectivity issues)
> loaded
> >> on blastwave packages. SUCCESS.
> >>
> >> George Wyche
> >
> >
> > I never read that before, thanks! I just assumed he did a standard
> install.
> > That's what I get to assuming.
>
> Just want to let you all know that I *know* that I need to updtae my docs
> on
> Blastwave and ensure that people can go ahead with either x86 or Sparc
> with
> Solaris 10 Update 4 or snv_70b ( SXDE ) and also get GNOME or XFCE or KDE
> from Blastwave running neatly.
>
> It is not obvious that you need to look at the PATH in /etc/default/login
> or
> a few other little things.


I found the docs were just fine. Keep up the good work.
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From dclarke at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 11 18:18:56 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:18:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Nexenta
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780709110708m45926c1bm308db3645d3d4c60@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b5090780709110708m45926c1bm308db3645d3d4c60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1233.72.39.216.186.1189527536.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> asily build an OpenSolaris based distro with just core
>> functions in it and then drag in the Blastwave software for userland
>> stuff.
>
> If you are going to strip out all the userland stuff, would there be
> any advantage over  running Nexenta? (It seems you get more packages)

The Nexenta software is all built on top of the Nexenta kernel and with GCC
I think. All the software at Blastwave is built on Solaris with Studio tools
( some GCC, our own GCC, sometimes ) and tested to run on Solaris 8 upwards.
It is all about long term stability and portability across Solaris versions.

You can always go hybrid if you want but I was thinking that we should
always keep the SUS ( POSIX etc ) compliant tools around. Always. Always
have the XPG4 tools as well as everything from the UNIX specs.

After all, Solaris is a UNIX system and OpenSolaris is UNIX source.

Dennis



From dclarke at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 11 18:21:24 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:21:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave Package
 Installation
In-Reply-To: <ea2809f50709110622w755d4346if3dd0de2f12898ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>
	<60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<ea2809f50709110622w755d4346if3dd0de2f12898ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1237.72.39.216.186.1189527684.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


>
>
> I use Blasewave's Gnome all the time. It rocks. Do you know if it is
> possible to install Solaris without JDS? Have two of everything eats up a
> lot of disk space.
>

Blasewave ? I must go and register that domain :-)

Yes it is possible but non-trivial for the average user.

I need to specify a package list that one could go with that allows a user
to install what they *need* from Solaris and then what they *want* from
Blastwave.

Dennis Clarke



From dclarke at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 11 18:25:04 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:25:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave Package
 Installation
In-Reply-To: <148d59250709110735h791ff1dq88e9784cade3577c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>
	<60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<148d59250709110735h791ff1dq88e9784cade3577c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1242.72.39.216.186.1189527904.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On 9/11/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
>>
>> In fact, one could easily build an OpenSolaris based distro with just core
>> functions in it and then drag in the Blastwave software for userland
>> stuff.
>>
> Hi Dennis,
>
> I remember you mentioning a project like this (Chinkara/gazelle)? Has
> there been any progress?
>

I was caught up in some business issues that really took me away. I have my
hands into too many company interests right now and I want to focus sharply
on products and services related to Solaris and OpenSolaris. It is a niche
market to be sure but a good one. A market with very loyal users and
customers.

With some re-structuring out of the way ( damn lawyers! ) I am able to get
back to work again.

So .. the short answer is .. not much .. but much coming soon.

There are maillists to join if you care to and I hope that you do.
Please see Gazelle and Chinkara at :

    https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo

Dennis



From zizban at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 18:25:31 2007
From: zizban at gmail.com (Chris Turkel)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:25:31 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave Package
	Installation
In-Reply-To: <1237.72.39.216.186.1189527684.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>
	<60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<ea2809f50709110622w755d4346if3dd0de2f12898ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<1237.72.39.216.186.1189527684.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <ea2809f50709110925g44d65bbeo1b7621edf90ac200@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/11/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > I use Blasewave's Gnome all the time. It rocks. Do you know if it is
> > possible to install Solaris without JDS? Have two of everything eats up
> a
> > lot of disk space.
> >
>
> Blasewave ? I must go and register that domain :-)
>
> Yes it is possible but non-trivial for the average user.
>
> I need to specify a package list that one could go with that allows a user
> to install what they *need* from Solaris and then what they *want* from
> Blastwave.
>
> Dennis Clarke


Blasewave is what happens when  I try to type and talk on the phone at the
same time :)

Non trivial? Solaris? Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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From dclarke at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 11 18:30:53 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:30:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave
 PackageInstallation
In-Reply-To: <ea2809f50709110918m3e13ac01q7f9d68a613890ae1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY123-F24DA8052F976091FD974FDD4C10@phx.gbl>
	<32816.66.90.167.124.1189520231.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<ea2809f50709110729o158f8df7sa556b3c830f6ab4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1208.72.39.216.186.1189526635.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<ea2809f50709110918m3e13ac01q7f9d68a613890ae1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1262.72.39.216.186.1189528253.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


>> It is not obvious that you need to look at the PATH in /etc/default/login
>> or
>> a few other little things.
>
>
> I found the docs were just fine. Keep up the good work.

Thanks !

I have been working on a storyboard for the Solaris 10 Update 4 docs as well
as the SXDE docs. People have asked me to document howto do various little
things like set up ZFS and then share it out via NFS.

You would never guess what one of the questions is that I get a lot. How to
setup dialup networking.

So .. guess what ?

I started on that too.



-
Dennis Clarke



From yann at pleiades.fr.eu.org  Tue Sep 11 22:30:18 2007
From: yann at pleiades.fr.eu.org (Yann Rouillard)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 22:30:18 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] WARNING: upgrading ssh will kill ssh connections under
	Solaris 10
Message-ID: <1189542618.32228.0.camel@taygete>

A new openssh package will soon land in the unstable repository but due
to a bug in SMF support, upgrading to this package will kill all
previous sshd processes 60 seconds after the previous package is
removed, thus closing all sshd connections. 
This problem only affects Solaris >= 10.

You are then strongly advised to perform this upgrade with no user
logged by ssh, and it is also recommended to use a console or a non-ssh
remote access to perform the upgrade. 

If you run pkg-get from a ssh connection, the connection will be closed
60s after the previous pakages removal, this could lead in the new ssh
package incorrectly installed, if it happens before the upgrade is
finished
Also, if the ssh service has problem being restarted correctly, you
would not be able to reconnect to your computer remotely.

If you have only a ssh access avaible, you could launch another ssh
daemon on non-standard port:
        /opt/csw/sbin/sshd -p 2022

and then connect to your computer daemon using this port:
        ssh -p 2022 yourcomputer

This connection will not be monitored by SMF and hence will not be
closed by the upgrade process.


This new package solves this issue and next upgrades will not suffer
from this problem.

Yann




From jhuysing at gmail.com  Wed Sep 12 07:15:18 2007
From: jhuysing at gmail.com (John huysing)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:15:18 +1000
Subject: [csw-users] More up to date libnet Package request
Message-ID: <f3b856a20709112215r645d89c6u90791f165b009881@mail.gmail.com>


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From anil.verve at gmail.com  Wed Sep 12 07:35:06 2007
From: anil.verve at gmail.com (Anil Gulecha)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:05:06 +0530
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
Message-ID: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and not 10
and above? Perhaps I'm uneducated as to the number of actual users of
8 & 9.

Also when the packages are created for 8, what does one lose (or
rather not gain)? As in does using solaris 8 as the base not allow
some available good technologies in solaris 10?

If yes, has a 10 and above repository been considered?

Regards
Anil

PS :I did google a bit, but did not find convincing data. Perhaps the
maintainers of various packages can elaborate?


From james at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 12 11:17:00 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:17:00 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>

On 9/12/07, 6:35:06 AM, Anil Gulecha <anil.verve at gmail.com> wrote regarding
[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and not 10
> and above?

Because people including myself have Solaris 8 systems.


> Perhaps I'm uneducated as to the number of actual users of
> 8 & 9.

As a Solaris user yourself I hope you appreciate the efforts Blastwave
makes to support minority computer users.


> Also when the packages are created for 8, what does one lose (or
> rather not gain)? As in does using solaris 8 as the base not allow
> some available good technologies in solaris 10?

Very little difference in the main.  Solaris 8 programs work in zones
and on ZFS.  There are a few differences but you will find in most
cases these are factored in to the base Solaris 8 package, eg,
SMF install classes and AMD64 binaries.  Ie, The Solaris 8
packages have features for S10.


> If yes, has a 10 and above repository been considered?

It exists.
Watch and you will see pkg-get take from a subdirectory for your
arch.




James.


From khfp.blastwave0704 at gmx.de  Thu Sep 13 13:51:53 2007
From: khfp.blastwave0704 at gmx.de (Klaus Heinz)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:51:53 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] typo in gar.conf.mk?
Message-ID: <20070913115153.236700@gmx.net>

Hi,

reading http://svn.blastwave.org/trac/wiki/GettingStarted I understand
that SKIPTEST=1 is supposed to disable the tests.
The behaviour I see is that SKIPTEST=1 _enables_ the tests while without
defining SKIPTESTS they are disabled.

A look at gar.conf.mk confirms this, the logic seems to be reversed:

  ifeq ($(SKIPTEST),1)
  TEST_SCRIPTS      ?= $(WORKSRC)/Makefile
  else
  TEST_SCRIPTS       =
  endif

This is SVN revision 1573.

ciao
     Klaus

-- 
GMX FreeMail: 1 GB Postfach, 5 E-Mail-Adressen, 10 Free SMS.
Alle Infos und kostenlose Anmeldung: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freemail


From comand at blastwave.org  Thu Sep 13 17:24:44 2007
From: comand at blastwave.org (Cory Omand)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 08:24:44 -0700
Subject: [csw-users] typo in gar.conf.mk?
In-Reply-To: <20070913115153.236700@gmx.net>
References: <20070913115153.236700@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <ffd485d70709130824w4132279dtb152a9c3e1109c92@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/13/07, Klaus Heinz <khfp.blastwave0704 at gmx.de> wrote:
> reading http://svn.blastwave.org/trac/wiki/GettingStarted I understand
> that SKIPTEST=1 is supposed to disable the tests.
> The behaviour I see is that SKIPTEST=1 _enables_ the tests while without
> defining SKIPTESTS they are disabled.

Yeah, not sure how this escaped detection for so long -- it is now
fixed in r1574.  Thanks for finding this!

- C.


From John.B.Taylor at Sun.COM  Fri Sep 14 23:41:50 2007
From: John.B.Taylor at Sun.COM (Ben Taylor)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:41:50 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>

James Lee wrote:

>On 9/12/07, 6:35:06 AM, Anil Gulecha <anil.verve at gmail.com> wrote regarding
>[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>  
>
>>I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and not 10
>>and above?
>>    
>>
>
>Because people including myself have Solaris 8 systems.
>  
>
you like working on really slow systems?

>>Perhaps I'm uneducated as to the number of actual users of
>>8 & 9.
>>    
>>
>
>As a Solaris user yourself I hope you appreciate the efforts Blastwave
>makes to support minority computer users.
>  
>
I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and nevada
based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive purposes.
Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and Solaris
2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what. 

No only that, but the amount of work required to make it all work on a
dead OS when Solaris 10 is really a premeire OS, is just beyond me,
not to mention we are coming up on 3 years of Solaris 10 being released.

I really hope Gazelle will find it's legs.






From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 14 23:56:03 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:56:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <18686.66.225.151.225.1189806963.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> James Lee wrote:
>
>>On 9/12/07, 6:35:06 AM, Anil Gulecha <anil.verve at gmail.com> wrote regarding
>>[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and not 10
>>>and above?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Because people including myself have Solaris 8 systems.
>>
>>
> you like working on really slow systems?
>
>>>Perhaps I'm uneducated as to the number of actual users of
>>>8 & 9.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>As a Solaris user yourself I hope you appreciate the efforts Blastwave
>>makes to support minority computer users.
>>
>>
> I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
> 7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
> blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and nevada
> based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
> insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive purposes.
> Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and Solaris
> 2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what.
>
> No only that, but the amount of work required to make it all work on a
> dead OS when Solaris 10 is really a premeire OS, is just beyond me,
> not to mention we are coming up on 3 years of Solaris 10 being released.
>
> I really hope Gazelle will find it's legs.
>

 Gazelle will find its legs when we have another meeting and decide on a
statement of work and then proceed. I am ready with GRUB2 and I think we
can bring in Martin Bochnig and Jorg Schilling and bingo .. we have all the
talent we need to get going.

 Blastwave does what it does because there are still downloads, every day,
from ibiblio.org ( berlios is bigger I think ) for Solaris 8 Sparc users
that amounts to 50% of the traffic.  Regardless of the marketing or the age
of Solaris 10 you will have to agree to the facts that a large amount of
the Solaris users out there are on Solaris 8 and Solaris 9.  Solaris 10 may
be 50% now but not in the x86 world.  In the x86 world Solaris 10 dominates
with 60% of the users and the rest are all on Nevada.

But I am only looking at the last ten days and only ibiblio and thus *only*
100,000+ installs.

But hey .. let's talk about Gazelle.

Look forwards not backwards.

Dennis


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 14 23:57:48 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:57:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Speaking of things that drive me nuts !
Message-ID: <18691.66.225.151.225.1189807068.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


  Why do we not have a package for QEMU for Solaris 10 ?

  Just a package for AMD64 Solaris 10 is fine in my book and I want that ..
so why don't we have it ?

Dennis



From John.B.Taylor at Sun.COM  Sat Sep 15 00:15:10 2007
From: John.B.Taylor at Sun.COM (Ben Taylor)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:15:10 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Speaking of things that drive me nuts !
In-Reply-To: <18691.66.225.151.225.1189807068.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <18691.66.225.151.225.1189807068.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46EB07EE.70401@Sun.COM>

Dennis Clarke wrote:

>  Why do we not have a package for QEMU for Solaris 10 ?
>  
>
Cause I was told by someone that in no uncertain terms
would a package be only for Solaris 10, and I have
no intention of compiling qemu 7 times (8, 9, 10 sparc,
8, 9, 10, 10 x64), because each Solaris version requires
special behaviors.

>  Just a package for AMD64 Solaris 10 is fine in my book and I want that ..
>so why don't we have it ?
>  
>
The opensolaris qemu project has a tarball for qemu and kqemu
that just works, assuming reading the Readme, running a
simple configure and gmake isn't beyond you. :-)

Unfortunately, the last couple of months, I've had my hands
full, and have not had a chance to re-sequence the changes
on the osol qemu project code back into the CVS qemu tree,
and test some of the major changes that have come down
in the last 45 days (global DMA mechanism, other significant
changes, etc).

I have some free time this weekend, so I'll try and get another
tarball out, and see how the new code works.  There's a fair
amount of testing that needs to occur.

Ben




From dclarke at blastwave.org  Sat Sep 15 00:34:57 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:34:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Speaking of things that drive me nuts !
In-Reply-To: <46EB07EE.70401@Sun.COM>
References: <18691.66.225.151.225.1189807068.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46EB07EE.70401@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <18810.66.225.151.225.1189809297.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Dennis Clarke wrote:
>
>>  Why do we not have a package for QEMU for Solaris 10 ?
>>
>>
> Cause I was told by someone that in no uncertain terms
> would a package be only for Solaris 10

oh geez  ...

how long ago was that ?

We do have a Solaris 10 tree for a reason .. a good reason I think.

> and I have
> no intention of compiling qemu 7 times (8, 9, 10 sparc,
> 8, 9, 10, 10 x64), because each Solaris version requires
> special behaviors.

Would be a lot of work I guess.

>>  Just a package for AMD64 Solaris 10 is fine in my book and I want that ..
>>so why don't we have it ?
>>
>>
> The opensolaris qemu project has a tarball for qemu and kqemu
> that just works, assuming reading the Readme, running a
> simple configure and gmake isn't beyond you. :-)

it is beyond a lot of users. Heck, a browser can be a challenge.

> Unfortunately, the last couple of months, I've had my hands
> full, and have not had a chance to re-sequence the changes
> on the osol qemu project code back into the CVS qemu tree,
> and test some of the major changes that have come down
> in the last 45 days (global DMA mechanism, other significant
> changes, etc).
>
> I have some free time this weekend, so I'll try and get another
> tarball out, and see how the new code works.  There's a fair
> amount of testing that needs to occur.

I can help with that. I want to look at Vista on QEMU. If you're game?

Dennis



From jamesd.wi at gmail.com  Sat Sep 15 17:31:22 2007
From: jamesd.wi at gmail.com (James Dickens)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:31:22 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <cd09bdd10709150831h19498af1g60010aeeeea33937@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/14/07, Ben Taylor <John.B.Taylor at sun.com> wrote:
>
> James Lee wrote:
>
> >On 9/12/07, 6:35:06 AM, Anil Gulecha <anil.verve at gmail.com> wrote
> regarding
> >[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
> >
> >
> >
> >>I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and not 10
> >>and above?
> >>
> >>



Solaris 8 is not dead, i work for a very large corporation, and my team
maintains  140  servers,  130 of which are still running Solaris 8, with no
plans to migrate them off of it, even though Sun is  threatening to remove
support in a year or two.

1/2 of those servers are running  production apps,  and the word
"production" generates its own FUD all on its own, the developers and even
sysadmin are afraid to move on. Even though Sun swears nothing will break,
the stability of the API/ABI is what allows blastwave to do what it does but
no one is moving.

In fact most people would be hard pressed to find a reason what compiling on
Solaris 10 gives the user. I'm a huge fan of Solaris 10 and above, but
really there isn't much reason to move on. Zones, ZFS, DTrace (well for the
most part, and I will cover that next), really dont change the API/ABI so no
need to migrate. Just ship with a SMF manifest and method that only gets
installed on Solaris 10 and later.

Even with DTrace there are only a hand full of apps currently that even
benefit from being built on Solaris 10, the ones that register there own
probes perl, mozilla, and some other scripting languages and most likely
those are being added to Solaris so we wont have to deal with them and
maybe in a year or two the changes will be mainstream and we can build those
on a Solaris 10 box.

James Dickens
uadmin.blogspot.com





>
> >Because people including myself have Solaris 8 systems.
> >
> >
> you like working on really slow systems?
>
> >>Perhaps I'm uneducated as to the number of actual users of
> >>8 & 9.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >As a Solaris user yourself I hope you appreciate the efforts Blastwave
> >makes to support minority computer users.
> >
> >
> I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
> 7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
> blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and nevada
> based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
> insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive purposes.
> Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and Solaris
> 2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what.
>
> No only that, but the amount of work required to make it all work on a
> dead OS when Solaris 10 is really a premeire OS, is just beyond me,
> not to mention we are coming up on 3 years of Solaris 10 being released.
>
> I really hope Gazelle will find it's legs.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
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From dclarke at blastwave.org  Sat Sep 15 18:50:49 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 12:50:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <cd09bdd10709150831h19498af1g60010aeeeea33937@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<cd09bdd10709150831h19498af1g60010aeeeea33937@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50325.72.39.216.186.1189875049.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On 9/14/07, Ben Taylor <John.B.Taylor at sun.com> wrote:
>>
>> James Lee wrote:
>>
>> >On 9/12/07, 6:35:06 AM, Anil Gulecha <anil.verve at gmail.com> wrote
>> regarding
>> >[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>> >
>> >>I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and not 10
>> >>and above?
>> >>
>> >>
>
>
>
> Solaris 8 is not dead, i work for a very large corporation, and my team
> maintains  140  servers,  130 of which are still running Solaris 8, with no
> plans to migrate them off of it, even though Sun is  threatening to remove
> support in a year or two.

This is the same thing that I see everywhere. Solaris 8 is out there and
LOTs of it. I recently installed a new server for a company in Montreal and
they demanded Solaris 8. Talks of anything fancy like Solaris 9 were of no
value.

If Sun wants Solaris 8 users to move forwards then Sun will need to start
beating them with a stick. That will most likely drive them to Linux which
is where Solaris users have been going for years.  Mostly because of
ignorance.

So .. the best thing to do is to shut up and let users do what they want.

Dennis



From iand at blastwave.org  Sun Sep 16 01:17:19 2007
From: iand at blastwave.org (Ian Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 00:17:19 +0100
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <50325.72.39.216.186.1189875049.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>	<cd09bdd10709150831h19498af1g60010aeeeea33937@mail.gmail.com>
	<50325.72.39.216.186.1189875049.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46EC67FF.5010000@blastwave.org>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
> This is the same thing that I see everywhere. Solaris 8 is out there and
> LOTs of it. I recently installed a new server for a company in Montreal and
> they demanded Solaris 8. Talks of anything fancy like Solaris 9 were of no
> value.
> 
> If Sun wants Solaris 8 users to move forwards then Sun will need to start
> beating them with a stick. That will most likely drive them to Linux which
> is where Solaris users have been going for years.  Mostly because of
> ignorance.
> 
> So .. the best thing to do is to shut up and let users do what they want.

I agree.

At work, we've been on Solaris 8 for ages because it was supremely stable and
did everything we wanted of it.  If blastwave didn't support Solaris 8, we
would never have started to use it.

We've started moving to Solaris 10 now, primarily because of the combination
of new hardware, zones and ZFS.  The u4 feature of running Solaris 8 inside a
zone will accelerate this significantly, and I'd be surprised if this didn't
help make the move easier for many others - pity it didn't come sooner.

Ian



From james at blastwave.org  Sun Sep 16 10:41:18 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 08:41:18 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 14/09/07, 22:41:50, Ben Taylor <John.B.Taylor at Sun.COM> wrote regarding
Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> >>I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and not 10
> >>and above?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Because people including myself have Solaris 8 systems.
> >
> >
> you like working on really slow systems?

No I don't.  I don't like working on fast systems either (is vi
at 3GHz with 4 cores any more fun?).  More importantly I don't like
working on systems that don't need fixing.  In fact I don't really
like working but you didn't write to talk about work ethics.

Are you suggesting that Solaris 8 is somehow "really slow" whereas
Solaris 10 isn't?  Or a "really slow" system with Solaris 8 updated
to Solaris 10 will no longer be "really slow"?  I think not.

I'm not against S10 and my new installs have been S10 but for
existing systems the logic is:
    Does S8 support all my services?  Yes.
    Will it cost me money to update existing systems to S10?  Yes.
    Will I make more money with S10 installed?  No.
Debate over.




James.



From pgress at optonline.net  Sun Sep 16 16:53:19 2007
From: pgress at optonline.net (Paul Gress)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:53:19 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <46ED435F.9020207@optonline.net>

James Lee wrote:
> No I don't.  I don't like working on fast systems either (is vi
> at 3GHz with 4 cores any more fun?).  More importantly I don't like
> working on systems that don't need fixing.  In fact I don't really
> like working but you didn't write to talk about work ethics.
>
> Are you suggesting that Solaris 8 is somehow "really slow" whereas
> Solaris 10 isn't?  Or a "really slow" system with Solaris 8 updated
> to Solaris 10 will no longer be "really slow"?  I think not.
>
> I'm not against S10 and my new installs have been S10 but for
> existing systems the logic is:
>     Does S8 support all my services?  Yes.
>     Will it cost me money to update existing systems to S10?  Yes.
>     Will I make more money with S10 installed?  No.
> Debate over.
>
>
>   
So the way I understand this from viewing all the responses back so far, 
people who use Solaris 8 are only using it with servers, and people 
requesting Solaris 10 compiles use Solaris as a Workstation and desktop 
productivity.  So maybe, Blastwave for Solaris 8 can be reduced to only 
server related tools (CUI) and then we can move forward to start 
utilizing the library base included in Solaris 10.

Paul


From james at blastwave.org  Sun Sep 16 16:58:02 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:58:02 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46ED435F.9020207@optonline.net>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46ED435F.9020207@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <20070916.14580200.4000480318@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 16/09/07, 15:53:19, Paul Gress <pgress at optonline.net> wrote regarding 
Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> So the way I understand this from viewing all the responses back so far,
> people who use Solaris 8 are only using it with servers, and people
> requesting Solaris 10 compiles use Solaris as a Workstation and desktop
> productivity.

Nope.  I'm writing this on a Solaris 8 desktop.




James.


From anthony.cogan at thinkunix.com  Sun Sep 16 17:04:27 2007
From: anthony.cogan at thinkunix.com (Anthony Cogan)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:04:27 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>

It's really a debate between us "old timers" Sys. Admins in the  
Enterprise vs. the newer "Linux" (I don't want to say kids, but), kids.

These people who run it at home or co-lo'd somewhere are used to  
upgrading/updating every 6-12 months with the newest and latest  
versions.

Whereas, I remember when I was doing some work at a large plane  
manufacturer, us Sys. Admins were bent because of Y2k testing.  We  
had some Solaris boxes at that time that had been up longer than  
Windows NT had even been released (mainly DNS/Utility server stuff),  
but we didn't want to reset our uptime. ;)

Anyways, in an Enterprise, you don't change just for the sake of  
changing, if it works, then you leave it alone, except for critical  
patches.

Now, like all of us "Old timers" have said, when something compelling  
causes us to upgrade we do.  I just built two servers for my wife's  
online business, a X2100 M2 and a X2200 M2, both running Solaris 10  
with a good number of zones and ZFS.  I have to say, Solaris 10 does  
have some darn nice features and will be the version I use for all  
new builds, but I still do not see a compelling reason to move off of  
Solaris 8.  For some odd reason too, I never have seen any reason to  
go to Solaris 9, I couldn't even tell you one feature in it that  
Solaris 8 didn't have.  Hmph.

I personally like to leave things running smoothly and reading my  
Dilbert or the latest BigAdmin article instead of upgrading, which  
always causes me about a week or two of fine tuning / debugging.

My .02 from this old timer.

On Sep 16, 2007, at 8:41 AM, James Lee wrote:

> On 14/09/07, 22:41:50, Ben Taylor <John.B.Taylor at Sun.COM> wrote  
> regarding
> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>>>> I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and  
>>>> not 10
>>>> and above?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because people including myself have Solaris 8 systems.
>>>
>>>
>> you like working on really slow systems?
>
> No I don't.  I don't like working on fast systems either (is vi
> at 3GHz with 4 cores any more fun?).  More importantly I don't like
> working on systems that don't need fixing.  In fact I don't really
> like working but you didn't write to talk about work ethics.
>
> Are you suggesting that Solaris 8 is somehow "really slow" whereas
> Solaris 10 isn't?  Or a "really slow" system with Solaris 8 updated
> to Solaris 10 will no longer be "really slow"?  I think not.
>
> I'm not against S10 and my new installs have been S10 but for
> existing systems the logic is:
>     Does S8 support all my services?  Yes.
>     Will it cost me money to update existing systems to S10?  Yes.
>     Will I make more money with S10 installed?  No.
> Debate over.
>
>
>
>
> James.
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
> --
> Into The Oven - http://www.intotheoven.com
> Cake, Cookie, & Chocolate Forums - http://www.intotheoven.com/bb/
> Free baking related e-mail accounts - http://freemail.intotheoven.com/



From pgress at optonline.net  Sun Sep 16 18:30:12 2007
From: pgress at optonline.net (Paul Gress)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:30:12 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070916.14580200.4000480318@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46ED435F.9020207@optonline.net>
	<20070916.14580200.4000480318@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <46ED5A14.90600@optonline.net>

James Lee wrote:
> On 16/09/07, 15:53:19, Paul Gress <pgress at optonline.net> wrote regarding 
> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>   
>> So the way I understand this from viewing all the responses back so far,
>> people who use Solaris 8 are only using it with servers, and people
>> requesting Solaris 10 compiles use Solaris as a Workstation and desktop
>> productivity.
>>     
>
> Nope.  I'm writing this on a Solaris 8 desktop.
>
>
>
>   
Well I guess your OS won't bloat because you need all the extra 
libraries Solaris 10 doesn't need.  What are you using for a Web 
browser, Mosaic?  For a text editor, vi?  Well I've been using Unix now 
for 15+ years, started with Interactive Unix from Kodak, and since then 
have always upgraded, even to Solaris 2.1 from Interactive Unix when Sun 
bought them.  From there I have purchased various Sparc workstations and 
current PC's all utilizing Solaris 10.  Yes I think keeping up to date 
with the OS is important, as do a lot of others.  There wouldn't be a 
lot of users with Solaris Express if it wasn't important to them.  I was 
very fluent with vi in the past.  Now, with computer horsepower up, to 
me GUI is the way.  But when I add what's missing in Solaris 10 or want 
the latest version, I get a whole set of redundant libraries that bloats 
my computer hard drive.  Yes I believe it's a problem that needs to be 
fixed.  Blastwave has 3 platforms to install to, but it seems only 
Solaris 8 is used.  Maybe Blastwave shouldn't drop Solaris 8, but they 
should make an effort to reduce the redundant libraries in Solaris 10 by 
making different install scripts for Solaris 10, maybe something like 
looking for Firefox install from the Bejing team of Sun, or even 
existing libraries of GTK and GTK2.  Why is this so difficult, and why 
so much resistance to progress?

Paul


From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 16 20:13:43 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:13:43 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46ED5A14.90600@optonline.net>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46ED435F.9020207@optonline.net>	<20070916.14580200.4000480318@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46ED5A14.90600@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <46ED7257.9050305@yahoo.com>

Paul Gress wrote:
> But when I add what's missing in Solaris 10 or want 
> the latest version, I get a whole set of redundant libraries that bloats 
> my computer hard drive.
>   

There are also reports that our duplicate libraries cause problems.


From james at blastwave.org  Sun Sep 16 20:18:26 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:18:26 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46ED5A14.90600@optonline.net>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46ED435F.9020207@optonline.net>
	<20070916.14580200.4000480318@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46ED5A14.90600@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <20070916.18182600.1740398560@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 16/09/07, 17:30:12, Paul Gress <pgress at optonline.net> wrote regarding
Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> Well I guess your OS won't bloat because you need all the extra
> libraries Solaris 10 doesn't need.  What are you using for a Web
> browser, Mosaic?

Firefox 2.0.0.6 - kindly provided by Blastwave.


>  Maybe Blastwave shouldn't drop Solaris 8, but they
> should make an effort to reduce the redundant libraries in Solaris 10 by
> making different install scripts for Solaris 10, maybe something like
> looking for Firefox install from the Bejing team of Sun, or even
> existing libraries of GTK and GTK2.  Why is this so difficult, and why
> so much resistance to progress?

OK, let us consider gtk2.  From Solaris 10:

$ pkgparam SUNWgnome-base-libs VERSION
2.6.0,REV=10.0.3.2004.12.16.15.19

and from Blastwave:

$ pkgparam CSWgtk2 VERSION
2.10.11


In what way are the newer libs of CSWgtk2 resistance to progress?
The duplication is not because of Solaris 8 but because the S10
version is not current and CSWgtk2 would exist regardless of S8.
Asking to use the S10 OS libs is resistance to progress.




James.


From ihsan at blastwave.org  Sun Sep 16 20:31:06 2007
From: ihsan at blastwave.org (Ihsan Dogan)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:31:06 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>

on 14.09.2007 23:41 Ben Taylor said the following:

> I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
> 7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
> blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and nevada
> based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
> insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive purposes.
> Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and Solaris
> 2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what. 

It's true that nobody is installing Solaris 8 anymore, but it's still
widely used and they are not going to be replaced that quickly. I don't
see any reason, why we should drop the support for Solaris 8



Ihsan

-- 
ihsan at dogan.ch		http://blog.dogan.ch/
			http://ihsan.dogan.ch/


From ihsan at dogan.ch  Sun Sep 16 20:31:50 2007
From: ihsan at dogan.ch (Ihsan Dogan)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:31:50 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <46ED7696.7070805@dogan.ch>

on 16.09.2007 10:41 James Lee said the following:

> No I don't.  I don't like working on fast systems either (is vi
> at 3GHz with 4 cores any more fun?).  More importantly I don't like
> working on systems that don't need fixing.  In fact I don't really
> like working but you didn't write to talk about work ethics.

If there would be a multithreaded version of vi, you could take
advantage of your CPU with 4 cores. ;-)



Ihsan

-- 
ihsan at dogan.ch		http://blog.dogan.ch/
			http://ihsan.dogan.ch/


From james at blastwave.org  Sun Sep 16 20:37:46 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:37:46 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46ED7696.7070805@dogan.ch>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46ED7696.7070805@dogan.ch>
Message-ID: <20070916.18374600.599443491@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 16/09/07, 19:31:50, Ihsan Dogan <ihsan at dogan.ch> wrote regarding Re: 
[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> > No I don't.  I don't like working on fast systems either (is vi
> > at 3GHz with 4 cores any more fun?).  More importantly I don't like
> > working on systems that don't need fixing.  In fact I don't really
> > like working but you didn't write to talk about work ethics.

> If there would be a multithreaded version of vi, you could take
> advantage of your CPU with 4 cores. ;-)

I'd have to learn to type with more than one finger.




James.



From jamesd.wi at gmail.com  Mon Sep 17 13:07:25 2007
From: jamesd.wi at gmail.com (James Dickens)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:07:25 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM> <46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/16/07, Ihsan Dogan <ihsan at blastwave.org> wrote:
>
> on 14.09.2007 23:41 Ben Taylor said the following:
>
> > I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
> > 7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
> > blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and nevada
> > based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
> > insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive
> purposes.
> > Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and Solaris
> > 2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what.
>
> It's true that nobody is installing Solaris 8 anymore, but it's still
> widely used and they are not going to be replaced that quickly. I don't
> see any reason, why we should drop the support for Solaris 8


sorry lots of people are still installing Solaris 8, we are deploying 4 new
database servers running oracle, all are running Solaris 8. On large servers
I think the number of Solaris 8 instances are growing still...

James Dickens
uadmin.blogspot.com




Ihsan
>
> --
> ihsan at dogan.ch          http://blog.dogan.ch/
>                         http://ihsan.dogan.ch/
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.blastwave.org/pipermail/users/attachments/20070917/22397e1d/attachment.html 

From jwheeler at blastwave.org  Mon Sep 17 14:33:59 2007
From: jwheeler at blastwave.org (Jonathan Wheeler)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 00:33:59 +1200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
Message-ID: <46EE7437.3010907@blastwave.org>

Anthony Cogan wrote:
> It's really a debate between us "old timers" Sys. Admins in the  
> Enterprise vs. the newer "Linux" (I don't want to say kids, but), kids.
> 
> These people who run it at home or co-lo'd somewhere are used to  
> upgrading/updating every 6-12 months with the newest and latest  
> versions.
> 
> Whereas, I remember when I was doing some work at a large plane  
> manufacturer, us Sys. Admins were bent because of Y2k testing.  We  
> had some Solaris boxes at that time that had been up longer than  
> Windows NT had even been released (mainly DNS/Utility server stuff),  
> but we didn't want to reset our uptime. ;)
> 
> Anyways, in an Enterprise, you don't change just for the sake of  
> changing, if it works, then you leave it alone, except for critical  
> patches.
> 
> Now, like all of us "Old timers" have said, when something compelling  
> causes us to upgrade we do.  I just built two servers for my wife's  
> online business, a X2100 M2 and a X2200 M2, both running Solaris 10  
> with a good number of zones and ZFS.  I have to say, Solaris 10 does  
> have some darn nice features and will be the version I use for all  
> new builds, but I still do not see a compelling reason to move off of  
> Solaris 8.  For some odd reason too, I never have seen any reason to  
> go to Solaris 9, I couldn't even tell you one feature in it that  
> Solaris 8 didn't have.  Hmph.
> 
> I personally like to leave things running smoothly and reading my  
> Dilbert or the latest BigAdmin article instead of upgrading, which  
> always causes me about a week or two of fine tuning / debugging.
> 
> My .02 from this old timer

Others are probably thinking it, but I want to make sure it's been said.

That was a really insightful email!

As an ex-linux..er...well I ran gentoo for years, so I guess I'm going
to be labeled a "kid" - I found it really helpful to have some insight
into the history of the old-but-wise solaris admin.

Personally, I've not ever installed solaris 10, I'm living in the 11
generation that you mentioned in passing. Joining blastwave, I've been
working my way "backwards" from x86 solaris 11 to sparc solaris8. Wee!

Not having ever used solaris 8, I don't have any soft-spot for it
whatsoever, but you do raise some good points around change.

I've also not seen solaris 9, but it sure sounds like he gets a rough
time! It's always hard being the middle sibling eh?

Thanks Anthony!
Jonathan


From ihsan at blastwave.org  Mon Sep 17 14:54:35 2007
From: ihsan at blastwave.org (Ihsan Dogan)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:54:35 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>
	<cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46EE790B.8070306@blastwave.org>

Am 17.9.2007 13:07 Uhr, James Dickens schrieb:

>     It's true that nobody is installing Solaris 8 anymore, but it's still
>     widely used and they are not going to be replaced that quickly. I don't
>     see any reason, why we should drop the support for Solaris 8 
> sorry lots of people are still installing Solaris 8, we are deploying 4
> new database servers running oracle, all are running Solaris 8. On large
> servers I think the number of Solaris 8 instances are growing still...

This just proves again, that Solaris 8 is still alive and that companies
can't change their policies and processes that easily.




Ihsan

-- 
ihsan at dogan.ch		http://blog.dogan.ch/
	 		http://ihsan.dogan.ch/


From karl.d.thiele at verizonbusiness.com  Mon Sep 17 16:25:43 2007
From: karl.d.thiele at verizonbusiness.com (Thiele, Karl D (Karl))
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:25:43 +0000
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
Message-ID: <36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>

Folks,

Oh, I need to weight in here, very much on the side of Anthony.  Well an
ls | wc -l of /home shows me 167 solaris 8 blades, these are just in my
group. We are one of the biggest customers of Sun. We will be moving
most of our Suns to Solaris 10 from 8 within the next 6-12 months only
because of hardware upgrades to production. New boxes do not support
Solaris 8.

All the developers of UNIX based applications, at this company, have now
come to rely on Blastwave. Almost everyone runs kde. (do not send us
back to CDE, I would have to consider finding a new job).

"If it is not broke do not fix it."  So true in business. Some boxes
that are not being replaced, will remain solaris 8.

You could even freeze off adding new software for Solaris 8, but do not
get rid of it. It is just disk space and that is cheap these days.

My two cents,

-karl

-----Original Message-----
From:
users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.org
[mailto:users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.
org] On Behalf Of Anthony Cogan
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 11:04 AM
To: questions and discussions
Subject: Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?

It's really a debate between us "old timers" Sys. Admins in the  
Enterprise vs. the newer "Linux" (I don't want to say kids, but), kids.

These people who run it at home or co-lo'd somewhere are used to  
upgrading/updating every 6-12 months with the newest and latest  
versions.

Whereas, I remember when I was doing some work at a large plane  
manufacturer, us Sys. Admins were bent because of Y2k testing.  We  
had some Solaris boxes at that time that had been up longer than  
Windows NT had even been released (mainly DNS/Utility server stuff),  
but we didn't want to reset our uptime. ;)

Anyways, in an Enterprise, you don't change just for the sake of  
changing, if it works, then you leave it alone, except for critical  
patches.

Now, like all of us "Old timers" have said, when something compelling  
causes us to upgrade we do.  I just built two servers for my wife's  
online business, a X2100 M2 and a X2200 M2, both running Solaris 10  
with a good number of zones and ZFS.  I have to say, Solaris 10 does  
have some darn nice features and will be the version I use for all  
new builds, but I still do not see a compelling reason to move off of  
Solaris 8.  For some odd reason too, I never have seen any reason to  
go to Solaris 9, I couldn't even tell you one feature in it that  
Solaris 8 didn't have.  Hmph.

I personally like to leave things running smoothly and reading my  
Dilbert or the latest BigAdmin article instead of upgrading, which  
always causes me about a week or two of fine tuning / debugging.

My .02 from this old timer.

On Sep 16, 2007, at 8:41 AM, James Lee wrote:

> On 14/09/07, 22:41:50, Ben Taylor <John.B.Taylor at Sun.COM> wrote  
> regarding
> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>>>> I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and  
>>>> not 10
>>>> and above?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because people including myself have Solaris 8 systems.
>>>
>>>
>> you like working on really slow systems?
>
> No I don't.  I don't like working on fast systems either (is vi
> at 3GHz with 4 cores any more fun?).  More importantly I don't like
> working on systems that don't need fixing.  In fact I don't really
> like working but you didn't write to talk about work ethics.
>
> Are you suggesting that Solaris 8 is somehow "really slow" whereas
> Solaris 10 isn't?  Or a "really slow" system with Solaris 8 updated
> to Solaris 10 will no longer be "really slow"?  I think not.
>
> I'm not against S10 and my new installs have been S10 but for
> existing systems the logic is:
>     Does S8 support all my services?  Yes.
>     Will it cost me money to update existing systems to S10?  Yes.
>     Will I make more money with S10 installed?  No.
> Debate over.
>
>
>
>
> James.
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
> --
> Into The Oven - http://www.intotheoven.com
> Cake, Cookie, & Chocolate Forums - http://www.intotheoven.com/bb/
> Free baking related e-mail accounts - http://freemail.intotheoven.com/

_______________________________________________
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https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users


From ben.taylor at sun.com  Mon Sep 17 16:54:47 2007
From: ben.taylor at sun.com (Ben Taylor)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:54:47 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
Message-ID: <46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>

Thiele, Karl D (Karl) wrote:

>Folks,
>
>Oh, I need to weight in here, very much on the side of Anthony.  Well an
>ls | wc -l of /home shows me 167 solaris 8 blades, these are just in my
>group. We are one of the biggest customers of Sun. We will be moving
>most of our Suns to Solaris 10 from 8 within the next 6-12 months only
>because of hardware upgrades to production. New boxes do not support
>Solaris 8.
>
>All the developers of UNIX based applications, at this company, have now
>come to rely on Blastwave. Almost everyone runs kde. (do not send us
>back to CDE, I would have to consider finding a new job).
>
>"If it is not broke do not fix it."  So true in business. Some boxes
>that are not being replaced, will remain solaris 8.
>
>You could even freeze off adding new software for Solaris 8, but do not
>get rid of it. It is just disk space and that is cheap these days.
>  
>

I do not believe I was suggesting that Solaris 8 support be
discontinued.  My experience with Open Source software is
that there are substantially fewer "porters" of OSS to Solaris
than other platforms.  Given that, I think it's a huge waste
of time to have to jump through hoops to get new code
working on such an old OS. 

As I pointed out in another discussion, QEMU has to be
compiled on it's own version, especially if using the KQEMU
accelerator.  There are specific sets of things that go missing
or change as we go backwards from Solaris 10.  Jonathan
Wheeler is dealing with such an issue on libxine, and having
talked to those developers, they wondered why anyone would
bother with libxine on such an old platform.

Hell, blastwave doesn't even have a gcc for x86-64 that can
compile 64-bit apps.

I know Solaris 8 is out there. Hell, I know folks still on 2.4 and
2.5.1 because the developers left and they are to afraid to
move it to a newer OS despite binary compatibility.  But let's
be realistic, you cannot pay Sun (unless you are a big
customer, with a big install base of Solaris 8) to install it
anymore.




From dclarke at blastwave.org  Mon Sep 17 16:53:39 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:53:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <56477.72.39.216.186.1190040819.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Thiele, Karl D (Karl) wrote:
>
>>Folks,
>>
>>Oh, I need to weight in here, very much on the side of Anthony.  Well an
>>ls | wc -l of /home shows me 167 solaris 8 blades, these are just in my
>>group. We are one of the biggest customers of Sun. We will be moving
>>most of our Suns to Solaris 10 from 8 within the next 6-12 months only
>>because of hardware upgrades to production. New boxes do not support
>>Solaris 8.
>>
>>All the developers of UNIX based applications, at this company, have now
>>come to rely on Blastwave. Almost everyone runs kde. (do not send us
>>back to CDE, I would have to consider finding a new job).
>>
>>"If it is not broke do not fix it."  So true in business. Some boxes
>>that are not being replaced, will remain solaris 8.
>>
>>You could even freeze off adding new software for Solaris 8, but do not
>>get rid of it. It is just disk space and that is cheap these days.
>>
>>
>
> I do not believe I was suggesting that Solaris 8 support be
> discontinued.  My experience with Open Source software is
> that there are substantially fewer "porters" of OSS to Solaris
> than other platforms.  Given that, I think it's a huge waste
> of time to have to jump through hoops to get new code
> working on such an old OS.
>
> As I pointed out in another discussion, QEMU has to be
> compiled on it's own version, especially if using the KQEMU
> accelerator.  There are specific sets of things that go missing
> or change as we go backwards from Solaris 10.  Jonathan
> Wheeler is dealing with such an issue on libxine, and having
> talked to those developers, they wondered why anyone would
> bother with libxine on such an old platform.
>
> Hell, blastwave doesn't even have a gcc for x86-64 that can
> compile 64-bit apps.
>
> I know Solaris 8 is out there. Hell, I know folks still on 2.4 and
> 2.5.1 because the developers left and they are to afraid to
> move it to a newer OS despite binary compatibility.  But let's
> be realistic, you cannot pay Sun (unless you are a big
> customer, with a big install base of Solaris 8) to install it
> anymore.

  Excellent !

  Because lots of people *will* pay to have it installed these days.

  Dennis


From ben.taylor at sun.com  Mon Sep 17 17:03:38 2007
From: ben.taylor at sun.com (Ben Taylor)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:03:38 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM> <46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>
	<cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46EE974A.6080102@Sun.COM>

James Dickens wrote:

>
>
> On 9/16/07, *Ihsan Dogan* <ihsan at blastwave.org 
> <mailto:ihsan at blastwave.org>> wrote:
>
>     on 14.09.2007 23:41 Ben Taylor said the following:
>
>     > I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
>     > 7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
>     > blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and
>     nevada
>     > based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
>     > insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive
>     purposes.
>     > Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and
>     Solaris
>     > 2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what.
>
>     It's true that nobody is installing Solaris 8 anymore, but it's still
>     widely used and they are not going to be replaced that quickly. I
>     don't
>     see any reason, why we should drop the support for Solaris 8 
>
>
> sorry lots of people are still installing Solaris 8, we are deploying 
> 4 new database servers running oracle, all are running Solaris 8. On 
> large servers I think the number of Solaris 8 instances are growing 
> still...

You can't even put Solaris 8 on a new large server.  Who are you kidding?
You have to have the latest version of Solaris 9 just to run USIV+ systems.
Niagara based platforms and the new M series have to be Solaris 10 minimum.

Yes, you may have an installed base, and have a bunch of folks maintaining
the status quo.  This is typical entropic risk advoidance.  There's not 
enough
folks (and probably equipment) to baseline the apps on a newer OS, so
no-one wants to change.  And I understand that some ISV's have been very
slow about Solaris 9 and Solaris 10 certification, so that causes some folks
to be limited.  But Oracle? 


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Mon Sep 17 17:05:25 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:05:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EE974A.6080102@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM> <46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>
	<cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE974A.6080102@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <50921.72.39.216.186.1190041525.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> James Dickens wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 9/16/07, *Ihsan Dogan* <ihsan at blastwave.org
>> <mailto:ihsan at blastwave.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     on 14.09.2007 23:41 Ben Taylor said the following:
>>
>>     > I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
>>     > 7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
>>     > blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and
>>     nevada
>>     > based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
>>     > insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive
>>     purposes.
>>     > Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and
>>     Solaris
>>     > 2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what.
>>
>>     It's true that nobody is installing Solaris 8 anymore, but it's still
>>     widely used and they are not going to be replaced that quickly. I
>>     don't
>>     see any reason, why we should drop the support for Solaris 8
>>
>>
>> sorry lots of people are still installing Solaris 8, we are deploying
>> 4 new database servers running oracle, all are running Solaris 8. On
>> large servers I think the number of Solaris 8 instances are growing
>> still...
>
> You can't even put Solaris 8 on a new large server.  Who are you kidding?

  I can install Solaris 8 into a V490 just fine.

  I can install Solaris 8 into most anything with an UltraSparc III and
there are a ton of people out there that want that.

> You have to have the latest version of Solaris 9 just to run USIV+ systems.
> Niagara based platforms and the new M series have to be Solaris 10 minimum.

  Yep, but they won't have real market penetration for years, if ever.

  The Niagra T2 on the other hand may be a real killer of a machine.


  but that is not the point ... the Solaris 8 user base is not going away
for a while yet and that may be the fault of Sun.  Just stop shipping
patches.

> Yes, you may have an installed base, and have a bunch of folks maintaining
> the status quo.  This is typical entropic risk advoidance.  There's not
> enough folks (and probably equipment) to baseline the apps on a newer OS, so
> no-one wants to change.  And I understand that some ISV's have been very
> slow about Solaris 9 and Solaris 10 certification, so that causes some folks
> to be limited.  But Oracle?

Well, the real issue here is should we bother, and by "we" I mean you and I
and a few other guys, bother at all to waste another minute of our lives
doing software work on Solaris 8 ?

I don't want to.

Here is what I am running right now :

-bash-3.00$ uname -a
SunOS aequitas 5.11 snv_69 i86pc i386 i86pc

That is pretty far from Solaris 8.  I would like to work with Studio 12 also
but I think I trust Studio 11 a bit more right now.

Dennis



From Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM  Mon Sep 17 17:30:19 2007
From: Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM (Ben Taylor)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:30:19 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <50921.72.39.216.186.1190041525.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM> <46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>
	<cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE974A.6080102@Sun.COM>
	<50921.72.39.216.186.1190041525.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46EE9D8B.8060600@Sun.COM>

Dennis Clarke wrote:

>>James Dickens wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>On 9/16/07, *Ihsan Dogan* <ihsan at blastwave.org
>>><mailto:ihsan at blastwave.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    on 14.09.2007 23:41 Ben Taylor said the following:
>>>
>>>    > I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
>>>    > 7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
>>>    > blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and
>>>    nevada
>>>    > based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
>>>    > insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive
>>>    purposes.
>>>    > Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and
>>>    Solaris
>>>    > 2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what.
>>>
>>>    It's true that nobody is installing Solaris 8 anymore, but it's still
>>>    widely used and they are not going to be replaced that quickly. I
>>>    don't
>>>    see any reason, why we should drop the support for Solaris 8
>>>
>>>
>>>sorry lots of people are still installing Solaris 8, we are deploying
>>>4 new database servers running oracle, all are running Solaris 8. On
>>>large servers I think the number of Solaris 8 instances are growing
>>>still...
>>>      
>>>
>>You can't even put Solaris 8 on a new large server.  Who are you kidding?
>>    
>>
>
>  I can install Solaris 8 into a V490 just fine.
>  
>
You can't buy a new V490 that runs Solaris 8.



From trygvis at inamo.no  Mon Sep 17 20:47:25 2007
From: trygvis at inamo.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Trygve_Laugst=F8l?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:47:25 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>

Ben Taylor wrote:
> Thiele, Karl D (Karl) wrote:
> 
>> Folks,
>>
>> Oh, I need to weight in here, very much on the side of Anthony.  Well an
>> ls | wc -l of /home shows me 167 solaris 8 blades, these are just in my
>> group. We are one of the biggest customers of Sun. We will be moving
>> most of our Suns to Solaris 10 from 8 within the next 6-12 months only
>> because of hardware upgrades to production. New boxes do not support
>> Solaris 8.
>>
>> All the developers of UNIX based applications, at this company, have now
>> come to rely on Blastwave. Almost everyone runs kde. (do not send us
>> back to CDE, I would have to consider finding a new job).
>>
>> "If it is not broke do not fix it."  So true in business. Some boxes
>> that are not being replaced, will remain solaris 8.
>>
>> You could even freeze off adding new software for Solaris 8, but do not
>> get rid of it. It is just disk space and that is cheap these days.
>>  
>>
> 
> I do not believe I was suggesting that Solaris 8 support be
> discontinued.  My experience with Open Source software is
> that there are substantially fewer "porters" of OSS to Solaris
> than other platforms.  Given that, I think it's a huge waste
> of time to have to jump through hoops to get new code
> working on such an old OS. 

This is the strategy I would like to see Blastwave use.

I think that a more balanced view of effort vs number and quality of 
packages would be nice. If it works on Solaris 8, great, but if it 
doesn't and it is a pain to get going, drop it. Make sure to have a bug 
reporting system where you can see how many people request supporting it 
on an older version too!

[snip]

--
Trygve



From karl.d.thiele at verizonbusiness.com  Mon Sep 17 21:43:39 2007
From: karl.d.thiele at verizonbusiness.com (Thiele, Karl D (Karl))
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:43:39 +0000
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
Message-ID: <36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>


I like Trygve suggestion.   I would not put a lot into supporting Solaris 8. If an update builds there straight out fine, but I would waste time shoe horning to work on Solaris 8.  Just leave some documentation if you want the new things move to .....   But keep the archive of what works now. From what I have been told, the company I am at are paying some big  bucks for Solaris 8 support, it is not a question of having or not having support.

End of my 2 cents..  BTW lot of folks here really appreciate the work Blastwave does, not expressed often enough.

-karl


-----Original Message-----
From: users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.org [mailto:users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.org] On Behalf Of Trygve Laugst?l
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:47 PM
To: questions and discussions
Subject: Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?

Ben Taylor wrote:
> Thiele, Karl D (Karl) wrote:
> 
>> Folks,
>>
>> Oh, I need to weight in here, very much on the side of Anthony.  Well an
>> ls | wc -l of /home shows me 167 solaris 8 blades, these are just in my
>> group. We are one of the biggest customers of Sun. We will be moving
>> most of our Suns to Solaris 10 from 8 within the next 6-12 months only
>> because of hardware upgrades to production. New boxes do not support
>> Solaris 8.
>>
>> All the developers of UNIX based applications, at this company, have now
>> come to rely on Blastwave. Almost everyone runs kde. (do not send us
>> back to CDE, I would have to consider finding a new job).
>>
>> "If it is not broke do not fix it."  So true in business. Some boxes
>> that are not being replaced, will remain solaris 8.
>>
>> You could even freeze off adding new software for Solaris 8, but do not
>> get rid of it. It is just disk space and that is cheap these days.
>>  
>>
> 
> I do not believe I was suggesting that Solaris 8 support be
> discontinued.  My experience with Open Source software is
> that there are substantially fewer "porters" of OSS to Solaris
> than other platforms.  Given that, I think it's a huge waste
> of time to have to jump through hoops to get new code
> working on such an old OS. 

This is the strategy I would like to see Blastwave use.

I think that a more balanced view of effort vs number and quality of 
packages would be nice. If it works on Solaris 8, great, but if it 
doesn't and it is a pain to get going, drop it. Make sure to have a bug 
reporting system where you can see how many people request supporting it 
on an older version too!

[snip]

--
Trygve

_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users at lists.blastwave.org
https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users


From brandorr at opensolaris.org  Mon Sep 17 21:56:18 2007
From: brandorr at opensolaris.org (Brandorr)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:56:18 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
Message-ID: <5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>

The thing is, just because you don't use x version of Solaris, doesn't
mean you are in the majority. Dennis has stated that a MAJORITY of
Blastwave download traffic is from machines running Solaris 8. End of
discussion.

>From Sun's website:
Solaris 8 support:
    * Last order date is November 16, 2006
    * Last ship date is February 16, 2007
    * End of service life will be March 31, 2012
    * A grace period until 12/31/2007 lets customers install Solaris 8
on NEW Sun systems they purchased without requiring purchase of a
Right-To-Use (RTU) license.

Personally, I would suggest that Blastwave supports, at a minimum,
Solaris 8 for at least the time that Sun does. That means Solaris 8
support for another 4 years+.

-Brian

On 9/17/07, Thiele, Karl D (Karl) <karl.d.thiele at verizonbusiness.com> wrote:
>
> I like Trygve suggestion.   I would not put a lot into supporting Solaris 8. If an update builds there straight out fine, but I would waste time shoe horning to work on Solaris 8.  Just leave some documentation if you want the new things move to .....   But keep the archive of what works now. From what I have been told, the company I am at are paying some big  bucks for Solaris 8 support, it is not a question of having or not having support.
>
> End of my 2 cents..  BTW lot of folks here really appreciate the work Blastwave does, not expressed often enough.
>
> -karl
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.org [mailto:users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.org] On Behalf Of Trygve Laugst?l
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:47 PM
> To: questions and discussions
> Subject: Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
>
> Ben Taylor wrote:
> > Thiele, Karl D (Karl) wrote:
> >
> >> Folks,
> >>
> >> Oh, I need to weight in here, very much on the side of Anthony.  Well an
> >> ls | wc -l of /home shows me 167 solaris 8 blades, these are just in my
> >> group. We are one of the biggest customers of Sun. We will be moving
> >> most of our Suns to Solaris 10 from 8 within the next 6-12 months only
> >> because of hardware upgrades to production. New boxes do not support
> >> Solaris 8.
> >>
> >> All the developers of UNIX based applications, at this company, have now
> >> come to rely on Blastwave. Almost everyone runs kde. (do not send us
> >> back to CDE, I would have to consider finding a new job).
> >>
> >> "If it is not broke do not fix it."  So true in business. Some boxes
> >> that are not being replaced, will remain solaris 8.
> >>
> >> You could even freeze off adding new software for Solaris 8, but do not
> >> get rid of it. It is just disk space and that is cheap these days.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I do not believe I was suggesting that Solaris 8 support be
> > discontinued.  My experience with Open Source software is
> > that there are substantially fewer "porters" of OSS to Solaris
> > than other platforms.  Given that, I think it's a huge waste
> > of time to have to jump through hoops to get new code
> > working on such an old OS.
>
> This is the strategy I would like to see Blastwave use.
>
> I think that a more balanced view of effort vs number and quality of
> packages would be nice. If it works on Solaris 8, great, but if it
> doesn't and it is a pain to get going, drop it. Make sure to have a bug
> reporting system where you can see how many people request supporting it
> on an older version too!
>
> [snip]
>
> --
> Trygve
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>


-- 
- Brian Gupta

http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nycosug/


From ihsan at blastwave.org  Mon Sep 17 22:24:17 2007
From: ihsan at blastwave.org (Ihsan Dogan)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 22:24:17 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <46EEE271.4040705@blastwave.org>

on 17.09.2007 16:54 Ben Taylor said the following:

> As I pointed out in another discussion, QEMU has to be
> compiled on it's own version, especially if using the KQEMU
> accelerator.  There are specific sets of things that go missing
> or change as we go backwards from Solaris 10.  Jonathan
> Wheeler is dealing with such an issue on libxine, and having
> talked to those developers, they wondered why anyone would
> bother with libxine on such an old platform.

If we would drop the support for Solaris 8, we still have to support
Solaris 9, which is not EOL yet. If we support Solaris 9, then you also
can support 8, because the difference is really not big.

> Hell, blastwave doesn't even have a gcc for x86-64 that can
> compile 64-bit apps.

Have you opened a bug for that?

> I know Solaris 8 is out there. Hell, I know folks still on 2.4 and
> 2.5.1 because the developers left and they are to afraid to
> move it to a newer OS despite binary compatibility.  But let's
> be realistic, you cannot pay Sun (unless you are a big
> customer, with a big install base of Solaris 8) to install it
> anymore.

2.4 is a different case. It's already EOSL. Solaris 8 is not EOSL.



Ihsan

-- 
ihsan at dogan.ch		http://blog.dogan.ch/
			http://ihsan.dogan.ch/


From ihsan at blastwave.org  Mon Sep 17 22:33:50 2007
From: ihsan at blastwave.org (Ihsan Dogan)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 22:33:50 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EE9D8B.8060600@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>	<cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE974A.6080102@Sun.COM>	<50921.72.39.216.186.1190041525.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46EE9D8B.8060600@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <46EEE4AE.7060904@blastwave.org>

on 17.09.2007 17:30 Ben Taylor said the following:

>>> You can't even put Solaris 8 on a new large server.  Who are you kidding?
>>  I can install Solaris 8 into a V490 just fine.
> You can't buy a new V490 that runs Solaris 8.

You can't buy a V490 from Sun anymore, that's true. As long as you are
not UBS you can buy hardware from Sun and you have to stick resellers.
Those companies have still a huge stock with the old hardware.

http://www.abacuscity.ch/abashop?s=456&p=productdetail&sku=30637



Ihsan

-- 
ihsan at dogan.ch		http://blog.dogan.ch/
			http://ihsan.dogan.ch/


From maybird1776 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 17 23:06:46 2007
From: maybird1776 at yahoo.com (ken mays)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:06:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EEE271.4040705@blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <520795.70509.qm@web34202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

1. Blastwave proposed to end the development of
Solaris 8 packages by Q4 of Y2007. This was something
discussed by the maintainers and Dennis Clarke can
further answer that question (i.e. he has the majority
vote). The Solaris 8 CSW repository was to be archived
for snapshot purposes and no longer under primary
support.

2. Solaris 10 will move to primary support on
Blastwave (still pending).

This initiative not only helps developers and
maintainers - but Sun as well. Although many users and
system admins may use Solaris 8 due to mainly older
hardware and software incompatibility issues today
with Solaris 10 - this will become less of an issue as
more admins gain experience with the use of Solaris 8
zones under Solaris 10 and newer hardware is migrated.

Why not Solaris 9?? Well, it is not worth it since
Solaris 9 dropped sun4d and began dropping sun4m
support in later versions. With Solaris 10 being
released, Solaris 9 hardware support concerns were
just "not worth it" in ROI subject areas dealing with
legacy hardware support and desktop support.

>From a true cost model, Blastwave already can support
Soalris 8 wel into the future with its current
stable/unstable repositories with little further
change for the next two years. Continual support
though would only be a costly venture in continual
maintenance and operational overhead.

- Ken Mays




----- Previously on Blastwave CSW-Users...
-------------
 17.09.2007 16:54 Ben Taylor said the following:

> As I pointed out in another discussion, QEMU has to
be
> compiled on it's own version, especially if using
the KQEMU
> accelerator.  There are specific sets of things that
go missing
> or change as we go backwards from Solaris 10. 
Jonathan
> Wheeler is dealing with such an issue on libxine,
and having
> talked to those developers, they wondered why anyone
would
> bother with libxine on such an old platform.

Ihsan Dogan said: If we would drop the support for
Solaris 8, we still have to support
Solaris 9, which is not EOL yet. If we support Solaris
9, then you also
can support 8, because the difference is really not
big.

> Hell, blastwave doesn't even have a gcc for x86-64
that can
> compile 64-bit apps.

Ihsan said: You opened a bug for that?
--------------------


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Luggage? GPS? Comic books? 
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz


From trygvis at inamo.no  Mon Sep 17 23:57:25 2007
From: trygvis at inamo.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Trygve_Laugst=F8l?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 23:57:25 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46EEF845.8060804@inamo.no>

Brandorr wrote:
> The thing is, just because you don't use x version of Solaris, doesn't
> mean you are in the majority. Dennis has stated that a MAJORITY of
> Blastwave download traffic is from machines running Solaris 8. End of
> discussion.

The world really isn't that black and white.

Most packages should work just fine on Solaris 8, and that is great. If 
building the packages work fine on 8, there is not reason to support it 
if there are *users* for the package.

The question here is not (to me at least) 8 vs 10, it is about how much 
effort vs how much the users loose. I can also imagine that the packages 
that are hard to build on Solaris 8 are the ones that are multi-media 
related and use features only in newer Solaris releases. Those packages 
are most likely only used by users with modern boxes so I would *guess* 
that supporting on Solaris 10 wouldn't hurt the users that much.

This is where a bug/issue tracking system would help out, to be able to 
find out which packages are popular and on which platforms.

>>From Sun's website:
> Solaris 8 support:
>     * Last order date is November 16, 2006
>     * Last ship date is February 16, 2007
>     * End of service life will be March 31, 2012
>     * A grace period until 12/31/2007 lets customers install Solaris 8
> on NEW Sun systems they purchased without requiring purchase of a
> Right-To-Use (RTU) license.
> 
> Personally, I would suggest that Blastwave supports, at a minimum,
> Solaris 8 for at least the time that Sun does. That means Solaris 8
> support for another 4 years+.

Blastwave should support its users, not Sun. Though they often 
correlate, that is not always the case.

--
Trygve

> -Brian
> 
> On 9/17/07, Thiele, Karl D (Karl) <karl.d.thiele at verizonbusiness.com> wrote:
>> I like Trygve suggestion.   I would not put a lot into supporting Solaris 8. If an update builds there straight out fine, but I would waste time shoe horning to work on Solaris 8.  Just leave some documentation if you want the new things move to .....   But keep the archive of what works now. From what I have been told, the company I am at are paying some big  bucks for Solaris 8 support, it is not a question of having or not having support.
>>
>> End of my 2 cents..  BTW lot of folks here really appreciate the work Blastwave does, not expressed often enough.
>>
>> -karl
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.org [mailto:users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.org] On Behalf Of Trygve Laugst?l
>> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:47 PM
>> To: questions and discussions
>> Subject: Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
>>
>> Ben Taylor wrote:
>>> Thiele, Karl D (Karl) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> Oh, I need to weight in here, very much on the side of Anthony.  Well an
>>>> ls | wc -l of /home shows me 167 solaris 8 blades, these are just in my
>>>> group. We are one of the biggest customers of Sun. We will be moving
>>>> most of our Suns to Solaris 10 from 8 within the next 6-12 months only
>>>> because of hardware upgrades to production. New boxes do not support
>>>> Solaris 8.
>>>>
>>>> All the developers of UNIX based applications, at this company, have now
>>>> come to rely on Blastwave. Almost everyone runs kde. (do not send us
>>>> back to CDE, I would have to consider finding a new job).
>>>>
>>>> "If it is not broke do not fix it."  So true in business. Some boxes
>>>> that are not being replaced, will remain solaris 8.
>>>>
>>>> You could even freeze off adding new software for Solaris 8, but do not
>>>> get rid of it. It is just disk space and that is cheap these days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I do not believe I was suggesting that Solaris 8 support be
>>> discontinued.  My experience with Open Source software is
>>> that there are substantially fewer "porters" of OSS to Solaris
>>> than other platforms.  Given that, I think it's a huge waste
>>> of time to have to jump through hoops to get new code
>>> working on such an old OS.
>> This is the strategy I would like to see Blastwave use.
>>
>> I think that a more balanced view of effort vs number and quality of
>> packages would be nice. If it works on Solaris 8, great, but if it
>> doesn't and it is a pain to get going, drop it. Make sure to have a bug
>> reporting system where you can see how many people request supporting it
>> on an older version too!
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> --
>> Trygve
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> users mailing list
>> users at lists.blastwave.org
>> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>> _______________________________________________
>> users mailing list
>> users at lists.blastwave.org
>> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
> 
> 



From Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM  Tue Sep 18 02:28:49 2007
From: Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM (Ben Taylor)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:28:49 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>

Brandorr wrote:

>The thing is, just because you don't use x version of Solaris, doesn't
>mean you are in the majority. Dennis has stated that a MAJORITY of
>Blastwave download traffic is from machines running Solaris 8. End of
>discussion.
>  
>
Please check with Dennis.  He retracted his comments to me.
Personally, I'd like to see all the archives information so we
can stop this discussion.  I don't care if Solaris 8 is the majority
or not.  If it is, so be it.  If it isn't, and is a substantial minority,
I suggest no additional effort be put into porting OSS code on
Solaris 8 if it *doesn't compile correctly out of the box* the first
time.

Since stuff is supposed to be put in the GAR, if someone really
wants to help, then they can make the appropriate changes
to the Garball for that package and submit it for inclusion.

>>From Sun's website:
>Solaris 8 support:
>    * Last order date is November 16, 2006
>    * Last ship date is February 16, 2007
>    * End of service life will be March 31, 2012
>    * A grace period until 12/31/2007 lets customers install Solaris 8
>on NEW Sun systems they purchased without requiring purchase of a
>Right-To-Use (RTU) license.
>
>Personally, I would suggest that Blastwave supports, at a minimum,
>Solaris 8 for at least the time that Sun does. That means Solaris 8
>support for another 4 years+
>  
>
Ridiculous.  Lots of wasted effort for a minority too scared, cheap,
lazy, bothered, or skilled to move off an obsolete platform.  I
don't care if the archives are still available, but I wouldn't waste
one more second on code that doestn't just work on Solaris 8.

But if this albatross is gonna hang around Blastwave's neck,
I got better things to do with my time.

The rest of the OSS community is really not interested in having
their software ported to an OS that is not even going to be shipping
in 2 months.  I've been down that path before. 

Ben


From iand at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 18 02:44:00 2007
From: iand at blastwave.org (Ian Dickinson)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 01:44:00 +0100
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EEF845.8060804@inamo.no>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EEF845.8060804@inamo.no>
Message-ID: <46EF1F50.4060209@blastwave.org>

Trygve Laugst?l wrote:
> Blastwave should support its users, not Sun. Though they often 
> correlate, that is not always the case.

Here, here!

Most blastwave packages are not a major issue to compile/support for Solaris
8, and most app maintainers are happy to accept well-formed patches in support
of that.  pkg-get can cope with the few exceptions if need be.

So what's the issue here?  Should we drop support for Solaris 8 because the
existing packages work on Solaris 8, 9 *and* 10?  "Not yet" is the answer I see.

Ian


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 18 05:37:08 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 23:37:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Blastwave from Solaris 8 to Solaris 10
Message-ID: <52297.72.39.216.186.1190086628.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>



---------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Blastwave from Solaris 8 to Solaris 10
From:    "Dennis Clarke" <dclarke at blastwave.org>
Date:    Mon, September 17, 2007 23:17
---------------------------------------------------------

> [ from Ken Mays ]
> 1. Blastwave proposed to end the development of
> Solaris 8 packages by Q4 of Y2007. This was something
> discussed by the maintainers and Dennis Clarke can
> further answer that question (i.e. he has the majority
> vote). The Solaris 8 CSW repository was to be archived
> for snapshot purposes and no longer under primary
> support.

Ref : Solaris Operating System Life Cycle
      http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/lifecycle.xml

    : Blastwave Sparc Solaris 8 installs from one mirror site
      http://www.blastwave.org/images/Solaris_8_Sparc_usage_06-07.png

  We are now well past Last Ship Date for Solaris 8 and I can report
  some significant drops in Solaris 8 users since then. The Solaris 8
  x86 users are virtually nonexistent and I would go so far as to say
  that the only users left on the planet are in the Blastwave project.

  However, anything compiled on Solaris 8 regardless of architecture
  will run as expected on Solaris 9 or 10. That is a convenient truth
  that we live with.

  When a user compiles an application on Solaris 8 x86 they are not
  necessarily working without cause nor are they somehow lacking
  common sense.  They are working on an operating system that complies
  with strict standards and it is a UNIX(tm) system.  Once the
  application works we can be assured that it will also work on both
  Solaris 9 and Solaris 10.

  Reality has shown us that a lot of organizations, for policy reasons,
  will not move from Solaris 8.  If we attempt to force these users
  away from Solaris 8, via abandonment, then we risk that they will
  gravitate towards Linux where they *perceive* that they can get
  everything that they need.  We do not need to feed that process.

  Our primary concern is that Blastwave releases many packages that
  are duplications on Solaris 10 and even on Solaris 9.  This concern
  is quite real and it has led to a condition known as "Blastwave
  bloat". A simple install of vim or apache can lead to many hundreds
  of software packages being downloaded and installed. Many of those
  packages are outright duplications on Solaris 10. In our defense I
  would say they are version upgrades to libraries and software found
  in Solaris 10 that otherwise would not get updated.  We need to
  create a software tree that stands on its own and can be updated
  continually without any impact on the core OS. This is a key
  Blastwave feature; software isolation and ease of update.

  Solaris users want and need access to reasonable open source
  software and they have very few options outside of Blastwave.
  These are things that Linux users take for granted and have done
  so for years.   The reality is that we want Solaris reliability
  and durability along with Linux utility.  The most recent
  production release of Solaris 10 8/07 includes a Companion CD
  which contains only 110+ software titles and many are terribly out
  of date.  More important to the market is the fact that these
  software titles are not supported, not updated and only available
  via arcane download processes.

      So we are left with a few options.

  One option that we have on the table is to simply ignore the facts
  in a shifting market.  This is hardly reasonable.  Blastwave was
  created because we, Solaris users, need to create and freely provide
  software one to another.  We have a need and we work together in order
  to ensure that any Solaris user may have access to a wide array of
  open source software options.  My founding dream was to assure the
  Solaris market that open source software would always be freely
  available to them and that it would be maintained and kept up to date.
  It would be current. Most important is that it would be reasonable
  for their needs.  Blastwave started with the best Solaris version
  at the time and that was Solaris 8.  Times have changed and thus, so
  must we.

  The current Solaris market is dominated by Solaris 10.  This is
  a numerical fact.  By the end of 2007 we will be in a safe position
  to make a final snapshot of the Solaris 8 software tree and leave
  it available.  The software packages being built at Blastwave from
  that point onwards should be done with the best Solaris at the time.
  That would be the most recent release of Solaris 10.  The Blastwave
  team will draw up an action plan which triggers a version migration
  by January 1st 2008.

  Blastwave has done an excellent job of building software for the
  Solaris market.  To continue as leaders we now need to look closely
  at Solaris 10 and I ask that we discuss viable plans.

  I want to thank everyone for their incredible work and support over
  the past five years.

Dennis Clarke



From Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM  Tue Sep 18 10:27:09 2007
From: Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM (Ben Taylor)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 04:27:09 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EEE4AE.7060904@blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM> <46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>
	<cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE974A.6080102@Sun.COM>
	<50921.72.39.216.186.1190041525.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46EE9D8B.8060600@Sun.COM> <46EEE4AE.7060904@blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46EF8BDD.6020907@Sun.COM>

Ihsan Dogan wrote:

>on 17.09.2007 17:30 Ben Taylor said the following:
>
>  
>
>>>>You can't even put Solaris 8 on a new large server.  Who are you kidding?
>>>>        
>>>>
>>> I can install Solaris 8 into a V490 just fine.
>>>      
>>>
>>You can't buy a new V490 that runs Solaris 8.
>>    
>>
>
>You can't buy a V490 from Sun anymore, that's true. As long as you are
>not UBS you can buy hardware from Sun and you have to stick resellers.
>Those companies have still a huge stock with the old hardware.
>
>http://www.abacuscity.ch/abashop?s=456&p=productdetail&sku=30637
>
>  
>
You cannot run Solaris 8 on any US-IV or US-IV+ CPU.

At minimum, you have to run Solaris 9 09/05.  One of my
customers had to upgrade to a new USIV+ board almost
a year ago and had to suffer through an OS upgrade
because the requirements of the for the system board
from an US-III to the US-IV+.  Unfortunately for them,
their botique firm that has their business process sw
hasn't certified Solaris 10, and may never due to the
fact that they are a botique shop and only have 1 Solaris
box inhouse.


From jreid at vnet.net  Tue Sep 18 18:52:08 2007
From: jreid at vnet.net (Joe Reid)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:52:08 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] Blastwave from Solaris 8 to Solaris 10
In-Reply-To: <52297.72.39.216.186.1190086628.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <52297.72.39.216.186.1190086628.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F00238.6060309@vnet.net>

Dennis Clarke wrote:

>   I want to thank everyone for their incredible work and support over
>   the past five years.

Ditto to this sentiment.

--
Joe Reid
jreid at vnet.net


From brandorr at opensolaris.org  Tue Sep 18 20:07:28 2007
From: brandorr at opensolaris.org (Brandorr)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:07:28 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Blastwave from Solaris 8 to Solaris 10
In-Reply-To: <52297.72.39.216.186.1190086628.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <52297.72.39.216.186.1190086628.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <5b5090780709181107w2b8d4ce9lb76e110825cb49cc@mail.gmail.com>

Dennis what resources would be freed up, if you were to drop support
for the S8 tree.

I am trying to understand what the resource costs would be to have two
trees? From the build farm to the number of man hours per week (that
would be required)..

I think it is a mistake to kill S8/Sparc development. There are many
commercial packages that have either only recently certified on S10,
are not yet certified for S10, or aren't yet certifying for S10 x86.
(In many cases we are waiting for ISVs to port to x86 before upgrading
an existing SOlaris 8 Sparc system to S10). In addition many Sun
customers never moved to S9, because it wasn't compelling.

(Basically for us Solaris 10's killer app, was x86 support.)

That all said, we don't use Blastwave in our Enterprise, but I don't
think you should stop updating the tree.

-Brian

On 9/17/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Subject: Blastwave from Solaris 8 to Solaris 10
> From:    "Dennis Clarke" <dclarke at blastwave.org>
> Date:    Mon, September 17, 2007 23:17
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> > [ from Ken Mays ]
> > 1. Blastwave proposed to end the development of
> > Solaris 8 packages by Q4 of Y2007. This was something
> > discussed by the maintainers and Dennis Clarke can
> > further answer that question (i.e. he has the majority
> > vote). The Solaris 8 CSW repository was to be archived
> > for snapshot purposes and no longer under primary
> > support.
>
> Ref : Solaris Operating System Life Cycle
>       http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/lifecycle.xml
>
>     : Blastwave Sparc Solaris 8 installs from one mirror site
>       http://www.blastwave.org/images/Solaris_8_Sparc_usage_06-07.png
>
>   We are now well past Last Ship Date for Solaris 8 and I can report
>   some significant drops in Solaris 8 users since then. The Solaris 8
>   x86 users are virtually nonexistent and I would go so far as to say
>   that the only users left on the planet are in the Blastwave project.
>
>   However, anything compiled on Solaris 8 regardless of architecture
>   will run as expected on Solaris 9 or 10. That is a convenient truth
>   that we live with.
>
>   When a user compiles an application on Solaris 8 x86 they are not
>   necessarily working without cause nor are they somehow lacking
>   common sense.  They are working on an operating system that complies
>   with strict standards and it is a UNIX(tm) system.  Once the
>   application works we can be assured that it will also work on both
>   Solaris 9 and Solaris 10.
>
>   Reality has shown us that a lot of organizations, for policy reasons,
>   will not move from Solaris 8.  If we attempt to force these users
>   away from Solaris 8, via abandonment, then we risk that they will
>   gravitate towards Linux where they *perceive* that they can get
>   everything that they need.  We do not need to feed that process.
>
>   Our primary concern is that Blastwave releases many packages that
>   are duplications on Solaris 10 and even on Solaris 9.  This concern
>   is quite real and it has led to a condition known as "Blastwave
>   bloat". A simple install of vim or apache can lead to many hundreds
>   of software packages being downloaded and installed. Many of those
>   packages are outright duplications on Solaris 10. In our defense I
>   would say they are version upgrades to libraries and software found
>   in Solaris 10 that otherwise would not get updated.  We need to
>   create a software tree that stands on its own and can be updated
>   continually without any impact on the core OS. This is a key
>   Blastwave feature; software isolation and ease of update.
>
>   Solaris users want and need access to reasonable open source
>   software and they have very few options outside of Blastwave.
>   These are things that Linux users take for granted and have done
>   so for years.   The reality is that we want Solaris reliability
>   and durability along with Linux utility.  The most recent
>   production release of Solaris 10 8/07 includes a Companion CD
>   which contains only 110+ software titles and many are terribly out
>   of date.  More important to the market is the fact that these
>   software titles are not supported, not updated and only available
>   via arcane download processes.
>
>       So we are left with a few options.
>
>   One option that we have on the table is to simply ignore the facts
>   in a shifting market.  This is hardly reasonable.  Blastwave was
>   created because we, Solaris users, need to create and freely provide
>   software one to another.  We have a need and we work together in order
>   to ensure that any Solaris user may have access to a wide array of
>   open source software options.  My founding dream was to assure the
>   Solaris market that open source software would always be freely
>   available to them and that it would be maintained and kept up to date.
>   It would be current. Most important is that it would be reasonable
>   for their needs.  Blastwave started with the best Solaris version
>   at the time and that was Solaris 8.  Times have changed and thus, so
>   must we.
>
>   The current Solaris market is dominated by Solaris 10.  This is
>   a numerical fact.  By the end of 2007 we will be in a safe position
>   to make a final snapshot of the Solaris 8 software tree and leave
>   it available.  The software packages being built at Blastwave from
>   that point onwards should be done with the best Solaris at the time.
>   That would be the most recent release of Solaris 10.  The Blastwave
>   team will draw up an action plan which triggers a version migration
>   by January 1st 2008.
>
>   Blastwave has done an excellent job of building software for the
>   Solaris market.  To continue as leaders we now need to look closely
>   at Solaris 10 and I ask that we discuss viable plans.
>
>   I want to thank everyone for their incredible work and support over
>   the past five years.
>
> Dennis Clarke
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>


-- 
- Brian Gupta

http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nycosug/


From james at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 10:49:55 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 08:49:55 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 18/09/07, 01:28:49, Ben Taylor <Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM> wrote regarding Re:
[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> >Personally, I would suggest that Blastwave supports, at a minimum,
> >Solaris 8 for at least the time that Sun does. That means Solaris 8
> >support for another 4 years+
> >
> >
> Ridiculous.  Lots of wasted effort for a minority too scared, cheap,
> lazy, bothered, or skilled to move off an obsolete platform.

Thank you for your vote of confidence in my ability.  Let me guess,
you don't work in the Public Relations Department of Sun.



> But if this albatross is gonna hang around Blastwave's neck,
> I got better things to do with my time.

Please go and do them.  You are not being stopped, Blastwave is
neither a mandatory nor an exclusive system.




James.


From magrawal at coba.usf.edu  Wed Sep 19 14:59:42 2007
From: magrawal at coba.usf.edu (Manish Agrawal)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 08:59:42 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] vimtutor bad trap problem when /opt/csw/bin not in $PATH
Message-ID: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>

When /opt/csw/bin is not in the path, vimtutor does not run. This is a problem because I am using Solaris zones in a classroom environment to teach some basic system administration (including introduction to vi) and to give students the opportunity to implement some UNIX STIG controls. There is one zone per student, and I don't want to modify the default /etc/default/login during zone creation using zonemgr (I want students to go in and do it themselves if they like). Requiring students to first edit /etc/default/login, logout, and log back in, seems to be an unnecessary hurdle.

Is it possible to modify vimtutor so that it works with the default paths.

Thanks
Manish

-bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor
/opt/csw/bin/vimtutor: trap: bad trap
vi: illegal option -- u
Usage: vi [- | -s] [-l] [-L] [-wn] [-R] [-S] [-r [file]] [-t tag]
[-v] [-V] [-x] [-C] [+cmd | -c cmd] file...
vi: illegal option -- u
Usage: vi [- | -s] [-l] [-L] [-wn] [-R] [-S] [-r [file]] [-t tag]
[-v] [-V] [-x] [-C] [+cmd | -c cmd] file...

-bash-3.00$ echo $PATH
/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:

-bash-3.00$ uname -a
SunOS dcomsm1 5.10 Generic_118833-33 sun4v sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-T200

-bash-3.00# zonemgr -a list
   ID NAME             STATUS         PATH
    0 global           running        /
    1 vexavier         running        /export/zones/vexavier
    2 afreickm         running        /export/zones/afreickm
    3 tzharp           running        /export/zones/tzharp
    5 misma            running        /export/zones/misma
    6 cjjohnso         running        /export/zones/cjjohnso
    7 pwburke          running        /export/zones/pwburke
    8 jpcarson         running        /export/zones/jpcarson
    9 dcomsm1          running        /export/zones/dcomsm1
   11 tapostle         running        /export/zones/tapostle
   12 mkording         running        /export/zones/mkording
   13 adontams         running        /export/zones/adontams
   14 dlogsdon         running        /export/zones/dlogsdon
   15 tlotzke          running        /export/zones/tlotzke
   16 svmehta          running        /export/zones/svmehta
   18 smoline          running        /export/zones/smoline
   19 cnolet           running        /export/zones/cnolet
   20 jparappa         running        /export/zones/jparappa
   21 aramin           running        /export/zones/aramin
   22 trosenga         running        /export/zones/trosenga
   23 bschwegm         running        /export/zones/bschwegm
   24 mweibley         running        /export/zones/mweibley
   25 fdwillia         running        /export/zones/fdwillia
   26 chisseri         running        /export/zones/chisseri
   27 cdafnis          running        /export/zones/cdafnis
   28 cmillsap         running        /export/zones/cmillsap

-bash-3.00$ pkginfo -l CSWvim
    PKGINST:  CSWvim
       NAME:  vim - Vi IMproved
   CATEGORY:  application
       ARCH:  sparc
    VERSION:  7.0.109,REV=2006.09.18
    BASEDIR:  /
     VENDOR:  ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim/unix/ packaged for CSW by Cory Omand
     PSTAMP:  comand at ra-20060918154023
   INSTDATE:  Sep 18 2007 16:25
    HOTLINE:  http://www.blastwave.org/bugtrack/
      EMAIL:  comand at blastwave.org
     STATUS:  completely installed
      FILES:        7 installed pathnames
                    1 shared pathnames
                    1 directories
                    2 executables
                 5270 blocks used (approx)


From a.cervellin at acm.org  Wed Sep 19 15:06:53 2007
From: a.cervellin at acm.org (Alessio)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:06:53 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] vimtutor bad trap problem when /opt/csw/bin not in
 $PATH
In-Reply-To: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
References: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>

can't you do a workaround like this:
#mv /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor.orig
#vi /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor
  #!/bin/bash
  PATH=/opt/csw/bin:$PATH
  vimtutor
:wq!
#chmod +x /opt/csw/vimtutor

now everyone should be able to run vimtutor

Manish Agrawal wrote:
> When /opt/csw/bin is not in the path, vimtutor does not run. This is a problem because I am using Solaris zones in a classroom environment to teach some basic system administration (including introduction to vi) and to give students the opportunity to implement some UNIX STIG controls. There is one zone per student, and I don't want to modify the default /etc/default/login during zone creation using zonemgr (I want students to go in and do it themselves if they like). Requiring students to first edit /etc/default/login, logout, and log back in, seems to be an unnecessary hurdle.
> 
> Is it possible to modify vimtutor so that it works with the default paths.
> 
> Thanks
> Manish
> 
> -bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor
> /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor: trap: bad trap
> vi: illegal option -- u
> Usage: vi [- | -s] [-l] [-L] [-wn] [-R] [-S] [-r [file]] [-t tag]
> [-v] [-V] [-x] [-C] [+cmd | -c cmd] file...
> vi: illegal option -- u
> Usage: vi [- | -s] [-l] [-L] [-wn] [-R] [-S] [-r [file]] [-t tag]
> [-v] [-V] [-x] [-C] [+cmd | -c cmd] file...
> 
> -bash-3.00$ echo $PATH
> /usr/sbin:/usr/bin:
> 
> -bash-3.00$ uname -a
> SunOS dcomsm1 5.10 Generic_118833-33 sun4v sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-T200
> 
> -bash-3.00# zonemgr -a list
>    ID NAME             STATUS         PATH
>     0 global           running        /
>     1 vexavier         running        /export/zones/vexavier
>     2 afreickm         running        /export/zones/afreickm
>     3 tzharp           running        /export/zones/tzharp
>     5 misma            running        /export/zones/misma
>     6 cjjohnso         running        /export/zones/cjjohnso
>     7 pwburke          running        /export/zones/pwburke
>     8 jpcarson         running        /export/zones/jpcarson
>     9 dcomsm1          running        /export/zones/dcomsm1
>    11 tapostle         running        /export/zones/tapostle
>    12 mkording         running        /export/zones/mkording
>    13 adontams         running        /export/zones/adontams
>    14 dlogsdon         running        /export/zones/dlogsdon
>    15 tlotzke          running        /export/zones/tlotzke
>    16 svmehta          running        /export/zones/svmehta
>    18 smoline          running        /export/zones/smoline
>    19 cnolet           running        /export/zones/cnolet
>    20 jparappa         running        /export/zones/jparappa
>    21 aramin           running        /export/zones/aramin
>    22 trosenga         running        /export/zones/trosenga
>    23 bschwegm         running        /export/zones/bschwegm
>    24 mweibley         running        /export/zones/mweibley
>    25 fdwillia         running        /export/zones/fdwillia
>    26 chisseri         running        /export/zones/chisseri
>    27 cdafnis          running        /export/zones/cdafnis
>    28 cmillsap         running        /export/zones/cmillsap
> 
> -bash-3.00$ pkginfo -l CSWvim
>     PKGINST:  CSWvim
>        NAME:  vim - Vi IMproved
>    CATEGORY:  application
>        ARCH:  sparc
>     VERSION:  7.0.109,REV=2006.09.18
>     BASEDIR:  /
>      VENDOR:  ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim/unix/ packaged for CSW by Cory Omand
>      PSTAMP:  comand at ra-20060918154023
>    INSTDATE:  Sep 18 2007 16:25
>     HOTLINE:  http://www.blastwave.org/bugtrack/
>       EMAIL:  comand at blastwave.org
>      STATUS:  completely installed
>       FILES:        7 installed pathnames
>                     1 shared pathnames
>                     1 directories
>                     2 executables
>                  5270 blocks used (approx)
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> 


From a.cervellin at acm.org  Wed Sep 19 15:10:44 2007
From: a.cervellin at acm.org (Alessio)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:10:44 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] vimtutor bad trap problem when /opt/csw/bin not in
 $PATH
In-Reply-To: <46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>
References: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
	<46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>
Message-ID: <46F11FD4.8080705@acm.org>

Alessio wrote:

> #vi /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor
>   #!/bin/bash
>   PATH=/opt/csw/bin:$PATH
>   vimtutor

there's a typo in this line, i meant vimtutor.orig


From magrawal at coba.usf.edu  Wed Sep 19 15:19:50 2007
From: magrawal at coba.usf.edu (Manish Agrawal)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:19:50 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] vimtutor bad trap problem when /opt/csw/bin not in
	$PATH
In-Reply-To: <46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>
References: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
	<46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>
Message-ID: <op.tywkncjez3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>

Thanks very much, there are some problems:

1. Every student will have to do this hack in their own respective zones. They are all newbies. Since they don't know vi, how are they going to write this script in the first place? Yesterday, we all used /opt/csw/bin/pkg-get install nano to get an editor available.

2. What is the point of having vimtutor in the first place if it does not work with the default paths? Isn't vimtutor for newbies?

3. What are fresh users going to think of Solaris and vim if they have to first do this hack before they can use a tutorial meant for newbies?

The best solution for me is to copy /etc/default/login from the global zone while creating the zone using zonemgr, but I don't want to do it and would prefer vimtutor to just work out of the box with the Solaris defaults.

Thanks
Manish

P.S.: In the third line of your script, you really mean /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor.orig, don't you ?

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:06:53 -0400, Alessio <a.cervellin at acm.org> wrote:

> can't you do a workaround like this:
> #mv /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor.orig
> #vi /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor
>   #!/bin/bash
>   PATH=/opt/csw/bin:$PATH
>   vimtutor
> :wq!
> #chmod +x /opt/csw/vimtutor
>
> now everyone should be able to run vimtutor
>
> Manish Agrawal wrote:
>> When /opt/csw/bin is not in the path, vimtutor does not run. This is a problem because I am using Solaris zones in a classroom environment to teach some basic system administration (including introduction to vi) and to give students the opportunity to implement some UNIX STIG controls. There is one zone per student, and I don't want to modify the default /etc/default/login during zone creation using zonemgr (I want students to go in and do it themselves if they like). Requiring students to first edit /etc/default/login, logout, and log back in, seems to be an unnecessary hurdle.
>>
>> Is it possible to modify vimtutor so that it works with the default paths.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Manish
>>
>> -bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor
>> /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor: trap: bad trap
>> vi: illegal option -- u
>> Usage: vi [- | -s] [-l] [-L] [-wn] [-R] [-S] [-r [file]] [-t tag]
>> [-v] [-V] [-x] [-C] [+cmd | -c cmd] file...
>> vi: illegal option -- u
>> Usage: vi [- | -s] [-l] [-L] [-wn] [-R] [-S] [-r [file]] [-t tag]
>> [-v] [-V] [-x] [-C] [+cmd | -c cmd] file...
>>
>> -bash-3.00$ echo $PATH
>> /usr/sbin:/usr/bin:
>>
>> -bash-3.00$ uname -a
>> SunOS dcomsm1 5.10 Generic_118833-33 sun4v sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-T200
>>
>> -bash-3.00# zonemgr -a list
>>    ID NAME             STATUS         PATH
>>     0 global           running        /
>>     1 vexavier         running        /export/zones/vexavier
>>     2 afreickm         running        /export/zones/afreickm
>>     3 tzharp           running        /export/zones/tzharp
>>     5 misma            running        /export/zones/misma
>>     6 cjjohnso         running        /export/zones/cjjohnso
>>     7 pwburke          running        /export/zones/pwburke
>>     8 jpcarson         running        /export/zones/jpcarson
>>     9 dcomsm1          running        /export/zones/dcomsm1
>>    11 tapostle         running        /export/zones/tapostle
>>    12 mkording         running        /export/zones/mkording
>>    13 adontams         running        /export/zones/adontams
>>    14 dlogsdon         running        /export/zones/dlogsdon
>>    15 tlotzke          running        /export/zones/tlotzke
>>    16 svmehta          running        /export/zones/svmehta
>>    18 smoline          running        /export/zones/smoline
>>    19 cnolet           running        /export/zones/cnolet
>>    20 jparappa         running        /export/zones/jparappa
>>    21 aramin           running        /export/zones/aramin
>>    22 trosenga         running        /export/zones/trosenga
>>    23 bschwegm         running        /export/zones/bschwegm
>>    24 mweibley         running        /export/zones/mweibley
>>    25 fdwillia         running        /export/zones/fdwillia
>>    26 chisseri         running        /export/zones/chisseri
>>    27 cdafnis          running        /export/zones/cdafnis
>>    28 cmillsap         running        /export/zones/cmillsap
>>
>> -bash-3.00$ pkginfo -l CSWvim
>>     PKGINST:  CSWvim
>>        NAME:  vim - Vi IMproved
>>    CATEGORY:  application
>>        ARCH:  sparc
>>     VERSION:  7.0.109,REV=2006.09.18
>>     BASEDIR:  /
>>      VENDOR:  ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim/unix/ packaged for CSW by Cory Omand
>>      PSTAMP:  comand at ra-20060918154023
>>    INSTDATE:  Sep 18 2007 16:25
>>     HOTLINE:  http://www.blastwave.org/bugtrack/
>>       EMAIL:  comand at blastwave.org
>>      STATUS:  completely installed
>>       FILES:        7 installed pathnames
>>                     1 shared pathnames
>>                     1 directories
>>                     2 executables
>>                  5270 blocks used (approx)
>> _______________________________________________
>> users mailing list
>> users at lists.blastwave.org
>> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>



-- 
Manish Agrawal
Asstt. Prof., Dept. of ISDS, Univ. of South Florida
4202 E. Fowler Ave., CIS 1040, Tampa, Fl 33620 - 7800, U.S.A.
(813)-974-6716 (W) 974-6749 (FAX) magrawal at coba.usf.edu
http://coba.usf.edu/departments/isds/faculty/agrawal/index.html
--


From J.Langner at fzd.de  Wed Sep 19 15:27:58 2007
From: J.Langner at fzd.de (Jens Langner)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:27:58 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] vimtutor bad trap problem when /opt/csw/bin not in
 $PATH
In-Reply-To: <op.tywkncjez3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
References: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>	<46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>
	<op.tywkncjez3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <46F123DE.3000503@fzd.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Manish Agrawal schrieb:
> Thanks very much, there are some problems:
> 
> 1. Every student will have to do this hack in their own respective zones. They are all newbies. Since they don't know vi, how are they going to write this script in the first place? Yesterday, we all used /opt/csw/bin/pkg-get install nano to get an editor available.
> 
> 2. What is the point of having vimtutor in the first place if it does not work with the default paths? Isn't vimtutor for newbies?
> 
> 3. What are fresh users going to think of Solaris and vim if they have to first do this hack before they can use a tutorial meant for newbies?
> 
> The best solution for me is to copy /etc/default/login from the global zone while creating the zone using zonemgr, but I don't want to do it and would prefer vimtutor to just work out of the box with the Solaris defaults.

You are anyway using blastwave and vim which isn't a solaris default. I
really can't see why it hurts to automatically copy your own
/etc/default/login to all zones as soon as you create them.

cheers,
jens
- --
Jens Langner                                         Ph: +49-351-2602757
Forschungszentrum Dresden-Rossendorf e.V.
Institute of Radiopharmacy - PET Center                 J.Langner at fzd.de
Germany                                               http://www.fzd.de/
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From ben.taylor at sun.com  Wed Sep 19 15:43:08 2007
From: ben.taylor at sun.com (Ben Taylor)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:43:08 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>

James Lee wrote:

>On 18/09/07, 01:28:49, Ben Taylor <Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM> wrote regarding Re:
>[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>  
>
>>>Personally, I would suggest that Blastwave supports, at a minimum,
>>>Solaris 8 for at least the time that Sun does. That means Solaris 8
>>>support for another 4 years+
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Ridiculous.  Lots of wasted effort for a minority too scared, cheap,
>>lazy, bothered, or skilled to move off an obsolete platform.
>>    
>>
>
>Thank you for your vote of confidence in my ability.  
>
There's no vote of confidence in your ability there.  Unless you
are the decision maker keeping on Solaris 8.  I am well aware
that CIO's and other management types are risk adverse, and
SA's have to toe the company line regardless of the age of
a technology.  There's a difference.   But to not plan a migration
off Solaris 8 to Solaris 10 after 10 has been out for almost
3 years and has amazing features, and it appears you are running
an app that has support in 10, all I can say is, if the shoe fits....

>Let me guess,
>you don't work in the Public Relations Department of Sun.
>  
>

I'm pointing out that it's time to stop putting any *more* effort
into porting code to Solaris 8.   

But I'm willing to let the minority keep the bloat factor high
just to support thier little patch. 


From shuttlebox at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 15:46:54 2007
From: shuttlebox at gmail.com (shuttlebox)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:46:54 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/19/07, Ben Taylor <ben.taylor at sun.com> wrote:
> But I'm willing to let the minority keep the bloat factor high
> just to support thier little patch.

What is the bloat you and others have mentioned?

-- 
/peter


From Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM  Wed Sep 19 16:04:04 2007
From: Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM (Ben Taylor)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:04:04 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>

shuttlebox wrote:

>On 9/19/07, Ben Taylor <ben.taylor at sun.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>But I'm willing to let the minority keep the bloat factor high
>>just to support thier little patch.
>>    
>>
>
>What is the bloat you and others have mentioned?
>
>  
>
The bloat is the duplication of packages in blastwave that
are in Solaris, especially as you move from 8 to 9 to 10 to
11 (nevada).

So if you want to run the latest gnome on SOlaris 10 from
blastwave, you will likely have almost the entire Gnome tree
duplicated.  I understand that it is important to have a separate
tool chain not dependent on Sun.  However, what turns out is
minimal bloat on Solaris 8 turns into maximum bloat on Solaris 10.

Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
go get more to resolve dependencies.

In a better version of blastwave, the check for dependencies
would happen before downloading the first package.  In a standalone
environment, the existing model could be used.




From shuttlebox at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 16:25:34 2007
From: shuttlebox at gmail.com (shuttlebox)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:25:34 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/19/07, Ben Taylor <Ben.Taylor at sun.com> wrote:
> The bloat is the duplication of packages in blastwave that
> are in Solaris, especially as you move from 8 to 9 to 10 to
> 11 (nevada).

But Suns packages are often not the latest even at release and then
they will normally just get security fixes and no version upgrades
which bring new features. As you said, Solaris 10 is almost 3 years
old now and many want to use fresher versions of bash, perl, Gnome or
whatever.

It's up to the user/admin to remove Suns packages if the bloat is a
problem which it might be due to the extremely annoying patch process.
How would it be better for users if Blastwave didn't offer the
"bloat", if they roll their own packages or just compile it into /opt
or /usr/local they will still end up with bloat unless they remove the
obsolete versions which belong to Sun, not Blastwave? I think the
question is - who offers the bloat, Sun or Blastwave? To you, it's
Blastwave since they are installed later but to me it's Sun because
they bring what I don't want to/can't use.

If you rely heavily on Blastwave packages maybe you could install a
smaller cluster of Solaris to reduce the bloat from the start?

> Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
> to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
> dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
> be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
> go get more to resolve dependencies.
>
> In a better version of blastwave, the check for dependencies
> would happen before downloading the first package.  In a standalone
> environment, the existing model could be used.

Well, at least Blastwave handles dependencies in an automatic fashion
instead of just barfing. ;-) I agree though, that it would be nice if
both pkg-get and the web site optionally could list ALL dependencies
for a package.

-- 
/peter


From james at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 16:34:53 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:34:53 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <20070919.14345300.3824529460@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 19/09/07, 15:04:04, Ben Taylor <Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM> wrote regarding Re: 
[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> >What is the bloat you and others have mentioned?
> >
> >
> >
> The bloat is the duplication of packages in blastwave that
> are in Solaris, especially as you move from 8 to 9 to 10 to
> 11 (nevada).

These would exist regardless of Solaris 8 because the Solaris
10 libs are not current.


> Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
> to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
> dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
> be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
> go get more to resolve dependencies.

This is not a Solaris 8 issue.




James.


From james at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 16:34:56 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:34:56 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <20070919.14345600.4170788221@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 19/09/07, 14:43:08, Ben Taylor <ben.taylor at sun.com> wrote regarding Re:
[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> >>Ridiculous.  Lots of wasted effort for a minority too scared, cheap,
> >>lazy, bothered, or skilled to move off an obsolete platform.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Thank you for your vote of confidence in my ability.
> >
> There's no vote of confidence in your ability there.

Indeed, clearly my statement lost all meaning in translation.


>  Unless you
> are the decision maker keeping on Solaris 8.  I am well aware
> that CIO's and other management types are risk adverse, and
> SA's have to toe the company line regardless of the age of
> a technology.  There's a difference.   But to not plan a migration
> off Solaris 8 to Solaris 10 after 10 has been out for almost
> 3 years and has amazing features, and it appears you are running
> an app that has support in 10, all I can say is, if the shoe fits....

3 years is not a long time (maybe it is to the "kids"), consider
machines have uptimes of perhaps more than a year.  Solaris 10 has
amazing features but so what?  What if I don't need them.  I have
no compelling reason to spend time/money updating a system to an
OS that provides the same (used) functionality.




James.


From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 16:40:00 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:40:00 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 04:49, James Lee wrote:

> > Ridiculous.  Lots of wasted effort for a minority too scared,
> > cheap, lazy, bothered, or skilled to move off an obsolete
> > platform.
>
> Thank you for your vote of confidence in my ability.  Let me guess,
> you don't work in the Public Relations Department of Sun.

No, he doesn't. If you want to talk to someone in the PR Department at 
Sun, why don't you give them a call and chat them up.

Here's the hard truth about your current abilities insofar as Solaris 
10 is concerned (i don't work in the Public Relations Department at 
Sun either):

If you were a MS Windows shop, you would be developing on Windows 
2000. If you were a Mac shop, you would be developing on Mac OS 9.

In either case, at this point in time your company would be out of 
business, and you would be out of a job, with zero prospects of 
finding a new job, because your skills and domain knowledge are 7 
years out of date.

--Stefan

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From stephan.windmueller at cs.uni-dortmund.de  Wed Sep 19 17:32:00 2007
From: stephan.windmueller at cs.uni-dortmund.de (Stephan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Windm=FCller?=)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:32:00 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Wrong md5sum for pkg_get.pkg
Message-ID: <20070919153200.GD31930@speutel.de>

Hello!

When I folllow the steps in http://www.blastwave.org/howto.html and
download pkg-get manually to check the md5sum, I get:

| # digest -v -a md5 pkg_get.pkg
| md5 (pkg_get.pkg) = d79b81b96687d39920c690fe2c3ea76d

This seems not to match with the key in the document. Has there been an
update of pkg_get?

- Stephan
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From james at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 17:32:14 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:32:14 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 19/09/07, 15:40:00, Stefan Teleman <stefan.teleman at gmail.com> wrote
regarding Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> > > Ridiculous.  Lots of wasted effort for a minority too scared,
> > > cheap, lazy, bothered, or skilled to move off an obsolete
> > > platform.
> >
> > Thank you for your vote of confidence in my ability.  Let me guess,
> > you don't work in the Public Relations Department of Sun.

> No, he doesn't. If you want to talk to someone in the PR Department at
> Sun, why don't you give them a call and chat them up.

I trust they would not be so insulting.


> Here's the hard truth about your current abilities insofar as Solaris
> 10 is concerned

All I said was I can't see any profit in spending money upgrading
systems that work, others have agreed.


> If you were a MS Windows shop, you would be developing on Windows
> 2000. If you were a Mac shop, you would be developing on Mac OS 9.

I'm not.


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 17:36:23 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:36:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <35760.72.39.216.186.1190216183.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On 19/09/07, 15:40:00, Stefan Teleman <stefan.teleman at gmail.com> wrote
> regarding Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>> > > Ridiculous.  Lots of wasted effort for a minority too scared,
>> > > cheap, lazy, bothered, or skilled to move off an obsolete
>> > > platform.
>> >
>> > Thank you for your vote of confidence in my ability.  Let me guess,
>> > you don't work in the Public Relations Department of Sun.
>
>> No, he doesn't. If you want to talk to someone in the PR Department at
>> Sun, why don't you give them a call and chat them up.
>
> I trust they would not be so insulting.
>
>
>> Here's the hard truth about your current abilities insofar as Solaris
>> 10 is concerned
>
> All I said was I can't see any profit in spending money upgrading
> systems that work, others have agreed.
>
>
>> If you were a MS Windows shop, you would be developing on Windows
>> 2000. If you were a Mac shop, you would be developing on Mac OS 9.
>
> I'm not.

Did you guys read this ?
 http://lists.blastwave.org/pipermail/users/2007-September/005570.html

It is more forward looking. I don't want to squabble in the trenches over
something that should be abundantly clear by now. Solaris 8 is quickly
becoming a dead user base and those are numbers from our actual user
downloads. This is not fabrication or conjecture. The data is there to look
at and you really should look at it. I certainly did.

A little *healthy* debate would be a good thing.

Dennis


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 17:40:39 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:40:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49429.72.39.216.186.1190216439.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On 9/19/07, Ben Taylor <ben.taylor at sun.com> wrote:
>> But I'm willing to let the minority keep the bloat factor high
>> just to support thier little patch.
>
> What is the bloat you and others have mentioned?
>

Install Solaris 8 onto a fresh box.

Then install pkg-get along with CSWcommon and CSWopenssl and CSWwget.

Then pkg-get -i gnome

You will see a massive pile of software being installed. Massive.

A lot of that *may* be duplications in Solaris 10.

Please read :

  http://lists.blastwave.org/pipermail/users/2007-September/005570.html

I would like to hear your comments.

Dennis



From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 17:21:15 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:21:15 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 11:32, James Lee wrote:

> I trust they would not be so insulting.

You should not feel insulted just because someone calls you on your 
apparent unwillingness to learn something new. This might happen to 
you in a job interview. It probably will.

> I'm not.

Nope, you're not. You're developing on a 7 years old version of 
Solaris which is EOF'ed, obsolete and of no interest to anyone except 
those who are unwilling to learn something new.

Blastwave's reliance on an obsolete operating system is Blastwave's 
guaranteed obsolescence. Make sure it doesn't become yours as well.

--Stefan

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 17:43:23 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:43:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <55426.72.39.216.186.1190216603.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> shuttlebox wrote:
>
>>On 9/19/07, Ben Taylor <ben.taylor at sun.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>But I'm willing to let the minority keep the bloat factor high
>>>just to support thier little patch.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>What is the bloat you and others have mentioned?
>>
>>
>>
> The bloat is the duplication of packages in blastwave that
> are in Solaris, especially as you move from 8 to 9 to 10 to
> 11 (nevada).
>
> So if you want to run the latest gnome on SOlaris 10 from
> blastwave, you will likely have almost the entire Gnome tree
> duplicated.  I understand that it is important to have a separate
> tool chain not dependent on Sun.  However, what turns out is
> minimal bloat on Solaris 8 turns into maximum bloat on Solaris 10.
>
> Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
> to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
> dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
> be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
> go get more to resolve dependencies.
>
> In a better version of blastwave, the check for dependencies
> would happen before downloading the first package.  In a standalone
> environment, the existing model could be used.
>

Ben, I think that we had spoken about a small PostgreSQL client that could
query a database server for the required dependency information.  Do you
think that we could put together a prototype ? I am certainly ready to
create the database server and the query would not be all that complex.
Recursive perhaps  but not complex.

Dennis


From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 17:39:10 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:39:10 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <49429.72.39.216.186.1190216439.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<49429.72.39.216.186.1190216439.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <200709191139.10783.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 11:40, Dennis Clarke wrote:

> 
http://lists.blastwave.org/pipermail/users/2007-September/005570.html
>
> I would like to hear your comments.

Dennis,

This has been discussed here, and  on IRC, and in emails, many times 
before. The problem here is that the prevailing mentality is 
*still* "Solaris 8 is good enough because subsequent versions are 
BC". 

As long as this "Solaris 8 is good enough" mentality remains the 
prevailing one, there's very little point -- insofar as i am 
concerned -- in rehashing what has already been hashed, rehashed and 
re-rehashed countless times.

--Stefan

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From dmcmullan at mac.com  Wed Sep 19 18:00:11 2007
From: dmcmullan at mac.com (Donal McMullan)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 04:00:11 +1200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>

I think it was Joel Spolsky who pointed out that code as it gets old,
doesn't rust. In fact, the longer it runs without incident, the more
trusted and valued it becomes.

If you want to spend your time replacing battle hardened, proven
solutions with the shiniest new thing (in other words, fixing things
that aren't broken) it's probably because you're too young to
appreciate how precious a commodity time is.

And I find that charming.

Donal


On 20 Sep 2007, at 03:21, Stefan Teleman wrote:

> On Wednesday 19 September 2007 11:32, James Lee wrote:
>
>> I trust they would not be so insulting.
>
> You should not feel insulted just because someone calls you on your
> apparent unwillingness to learn something new. This might happen to
> you in a job interview. It probably will.
>
>> I'm not.
>
> Nope, you're not. You're developing on a 7 years old version of
> Solaris which is EOF'ed, obsolete and of no interest to anyone except
> those who are unwilling to learn something new.
>
> Blastwave's reliance on an obsolete operating system is Blastwave's
> guaranteed obsolescence. Make sure it doesn't become yours as well.
>
> --Stefan
>
> -- 
> Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
> KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
> stefan.teleman at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users



From james at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 18:03:31 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:03:31 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070919.16033100.3997691140@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 19/09/07, 16:21:15, Stefan Teleman <stefan.teleman at gmail.com> wrote
regarding Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> > I trust they would not be so insulting.

> You should not feel insulted just because someone calls you on your
> apparent unwillingness to learn something new. This might happen to
> you in a job interview. It probably will.

I use Solaris 10.

Perhaps I'm disappointed that my reasons have not been listen to:
that there is no profit in implement something new for the sake of
it, because "it's advanced" or "runs on USIV+" when I don't have
USIV+.


> > I'm not.

> Nope, you're not. You're developing on a 7 years old version of
> Solaris

I don't develop for Solaris 8.


> which is EOF'ed, obsolete and

And still works.  Sun is at fault for not making it rubbish
in the first place.


> of no interest to anyone except
> those who are unwilling to learn something new.

I am constantly learning new things, what part of "it costs me
money" did you not hear?

Can we get back to how Solaris 8 support affects Solaris 10?
The 2 reasons Ben Taylor gave being void, any others?





James.


From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 17:50:23 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:50:23 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
Message-ID: <200709191150.23981.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 12:00, Donal McMullan wrote:

> If you want to spend your time replacing battle hardened, proven
> solutions with the shiniest new thing (in other words, fixing
> things that aren't broken) it's probably because you're too young
> to appreciate how precious a commodity time is.

You should not make assumptions either about my age, or my experience.

I do not make such about yours, although i would venture a guess, and 
posit that you are a Solaris 8 sysadmin, hanging for dear life on the 
last 280R space heaters in the datacenter.

You seem not to have the time, or interest, in keeping up with the 
evolving demands of your profession. I think you have a problem.

--Stefan

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 18:09:13 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:09:13 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070919.16033100.3997691140@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.16033100.3997691140@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200709191209.14626.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 12:03, James Lee wrote:
> On 19/09/07, 16:21:15, Stefan Teleman <stefan.teleman at gmail.com>
> wrote
>
> regarding Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
> > > I trust they would not be so insulting.
> >
> > You should not feel insulted just because someone calls you on
> > your apparent unwillingness to learn something new. This might
> > happen to you in a job interview. It probably will.
>
> I use Solaris 10.

Good for you. Have a cookie.

> Perhaps I'm disappointed that my reasons have not been listen to:
> that there is no profit in implement something new for the sake of
> it, because "it's advanced" or "runs on USIV+" when I don't have
> USIV+.

Get one.

> And still works.  Sun is at fault for not making it rubbish
> in the first place.

SunOS 4.2 still works too.

> I am constantly learning new things, what part of "it costs me
> money" did you not hear?

I can't hear you. You are typing on your keyboard, and you are not in 
the same room as i am. I can't hear the clicking of your keyboard 
from here.

> Can we get back to how Solaris 8 support affects Solaris 10?
> The 2 reasons Ben Taylor gave being void, any others?

I'm not interested in support. I don't answer phones listening to user 
complaints for a living.

Your Voiding Powers make me shake in fear.

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 18:32:17 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:32:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191139.10783.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<49429.72.39.216.186.1190216439.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<200709191139.10783.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44279.72.39.216.186.1190219537.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On Wednesday 19 September 2007 11:40, Dennis Clarke wrote:
>>
> http://lists.blastwave.org/pipermail/users/2007-September/005570.html
>>
>> I would like to hear your comments.
>
> Dennis,
>
> This has been discussed here, and  on IRC, and in emails, many times
> before. The problem here is that the prevailing mentality is
> *still* "Solaris 8 is good enough because subsequent versions are
> BC".
>
> As long as this "Solaris 8 is good enough" mentality remains the
> prevailing one, there's very little point -- insofar as i am
> concerned -- in rehashing what has already been hashed, rehashed and
> re-rehashed countless times.

  That message from me was rather clear.

  I want to lock the Solaris 8 tree into a frozen state by January the 1st
of 2008 and begin working on Solaris 10 build machines by that time. This
is a simple business decision and what is best for this project. There may
be those that feel that Solaris 8 works just fine and they are right. It
does work just fine. It is also past its Last Ship Date and we have
provided five years worth of software for its users.

  Back in 2002 we did not start with Solaris 2.5.1 as out platform of
choice. No one will question that Solaris 2.5.1 was a fine release and
that there was still plenty of it out there in the market back in 2000. By
2002 we could see Solaris 2.5.1 was going away and so were the sun4m
production machines.

  It just makes no sense for this project to lock itself to Solaris 8 for
another year.

  For one more quarter, fine, I have no issue with that.

  Enough is enough.

  If there are people that see value in creating SVR4 compliant packages to
users of Solaris 10 then I'd like to hear from them. Let me be clear here.
I am interested in hearing from people that see value in Solaris 10
forwards. If we need new infrastructure then fine .. it will be done. If
we need to fork .. then fine .. it will be done.

Dennis



From ben.taylor at sun.com  Wed Sep 19 18:38:49 2007
From: ben.taylor at sun.com (Ben Taylor)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:38:49 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
Message-ID: <46F15099.2060403@Sun.COM>

Donal McMullan wrote:

>I think it was Joel Spolsky who pointed out that code as it gets old,
>doesn't rust. In fact, the longer it runs without incident, the more
>trusted and valued it becomes.
>  
>
And if you've ever been in the situation trying to get support for an 
obsolete OS,
you'll recognize that the first time you have to go through that, you 
wonder why
you didn't upgrade earlier.

>If you want to spend your time replacing battle hardened, proven
>solutions with the shiniest new thing (in other words, fixing things
>that aren't broken) it's probably because you're too young to
>appreciate how precious a commodity time is.
>  
>
That's right, I couldn't possibly understand having worked in the 
financial markets 15 years
ago.  I do recognize, having had the job of coordinating all the open 
bugs with Sun as the
customer, and doing patch management, the hassles involved in getting 
Sun to support
an aging OS and getting problem resolution done.   Due to the large Sun 
presence and
huge support costs paid by this org, several times during my stint, Sun 
had to find
engineers to come out on site and debug the problem because they 
couldn't reproduce
it internally, and the guy who came out was typically the person who 
wrote the driver
or module.

Now, after weeks of limited usability of the systems in question, the 
cost to the financial
org was pretty high because they had stayed on very old HW and an old 
OS.  So I find
your justification just as *charming*.  I never want to be in the 
position of having to
answer why I just cost my organization 50K in lost productivity. 

Ben


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 18:42:52 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:42:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
Message-ID: <50138.72.39.216.186.1190220172.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> I think it was Joel Spolsky who pointed out that code as it gets old,
> doesn't rust. In fact, the longer it runs without incident, the more
> trusted and valued it becomes.
>
> If you want to spend your time replacing battle hardened, proven
> solutions with the shiniest new thing (in other words, fixing things
> that aren't broken) it's probably because you're too young to
> appreciate how precious a commodity time is.

I don't think anyone has accused me of being "one of the kids" in about two
decades. :-)

I recall, quie clearly, working all nighters in the military computer labs
surrounded by IBM System 360 mainframes and new Apollo DN10000 workstations.
It was great fun back then porting old COBOL and Fortran code over to ( ah
hem ) Pascal and C on the Apollo machines. There was this new thing rolled
in one day. It was a deskside clunker thing with SUN on it. No one had seen
one before but we took the panels off and looked inside and thought it was
hellish cool hardware.

It was fast. Real fast.

We loved it.

Over time I was a central decision maker that saw the removal of the IBM
Mainframes and Apollo machines. We brought in Sun. I have a twentieth year
reunion coming up next year and that computer lab is still there packed wall
to wall with Sun Starfire monsters.  I was only there for a few years after
some years in the artillery ( my hearing will never ome back ) and I am
happy that the craters I created have long since been filled and that the
Sun systems are still running strong in that Lab.

We knew when it was time to move forwards back then.

I also know it now.

Dennis Clarke



From dmcmullan at mac.com  Wed Sep 19 18:46:18 2007
From: dmcmullan at mac.com (Donal McMullan)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 04:46:18 +1200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191150.23981.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
	<200709191150.23981.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7CC0CFD1-E3D2-4D2B-8EFB-EF07E2FAB07A@mac.com>


On 20 Sep 2007, at 03:50, Stefan Teleman wrote:

> On Wednesday 19 September 2007 12:00, Donal McMullan wrote:
>
>> If you want to spend your time replacing battle hardened, proven
>> solutions with the shiniest new thing (in other words, fixing
>> things that aren't broken) it's probably because you're too young
>> to appreciate how precious a commodity time is.
>
> You should not make assumptions either about my age, or my experience.
A careful reader would note that I made neither; I consider ad
hominem attacks to be beneath me :P

> I do not make such about yours, although i would venture a guess, and
> posit that you are a Solaris 8 sysadmin, hanging for dear life on the
> last 280R space heaters in the datacenter.
I'm a developer, and OpenSolaris on x64 is the only variant I have any
experience with. I'm currently running nv_72 on my desktop.

> You seem not to have the time, or interest, in keeping up with the
> evolving demands of your profession. I think you have a problem.
I see.

I think you didn't touch on "fixing things that aren't broken" - the
only substantial point I made - because it's transparently correct.

I don't think it's wrong for Blastwave to drop support for Solaris 8,
because I'm not aware that they owe anybody anything. The reverse is
true, and I'm hugely appreciative of the work they do. I cut my teeth on
Linux, and I'm not sure I'd have made the switch to OpenSolaris
without Blastwave.

So - thanks guys!

Donal


From james at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 18:49:01 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:49:01 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191209.14626.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.16033100.3997691140@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191209.14626.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070919.16490100.3345372432@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 19/09/07, 17:09:13, Stefan Teleman <stefan.teleman at gmail.com> wrote 
regarding Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> > Perhaps I'm disappointed that my reasons have not been listen to:
> > that there is no profit in implement something new for the sake of
> > it, because "it's advanced" or "runs on USIV+" when I don't have
> > USIV+.

> Get one.

Free?


> > And still works.  Sun is at fault for not making it rubbish
> > in the first place.

> SunOS 4.2 still works too.

Don't think I can't run Java 1.6 on it.



> > I am constantly learning new things, what part of "it costs me
> > money" did you not hear?

> I can't hear you. You are typing on your keyboard, and you are not in
> the same room as i am. I can't hear the clicking of your keyboard
> from here.

*pendent alert*




James.



From trygvis at inamo.no  Wed Sep 19 18:47:55 2007
From: trygvis at inamo.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Trygve_Laugst=F8l?=)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:47:55 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management,
 was Re:  Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>

(posting as new as the topic is new)

Dennis Clarke wrote:
 >> shuttlebox wrote:

[snip]

 >> Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
 >> to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
 >> dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
 >> be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
 >> go get more to resolve dependencies.
 >>
 >> In a better version of blastwave, the check for dependencies
 >> would happen before downloading the first package.  In a standalone
 >> environment, the existing model could be used.
 >>
 >
 > Ben, I think that we had spoken about a small PostgreSQL client that 
could
 > query a database server for the required dependency information.  Do you
 > think that we could put together a prototype ? I am certainly ready to
 > create the database server and the query would not be all that complex.
 > Recursive perhaps  but not complex.

Please, please, do not reinvent the wheel here! Most of the Linux 
distros has solved this in a very elegant way. It might not be possible 
to compile those packages directly on Solaris because of GPL issues, but 
at least their ideas can be leveraged.

Another option is to look to different, but yet similar dependency 
management solutions like Apache Maven which could provide a build system.

--
Trygve


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 18:52:06 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:52:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Wrong md5sum for pkg_get.pkg
In-Reply-To: <20070919153200.GD31930@speutel.de>
References: <20070919153200.GD31930@speutel.de>
Message-ID: <46539.72.39.216.186.1190220726.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Hello!
>
> When I folllow the steps in http://www.blastwave.org/howto.html and
> download pkg-get manually to check the md5sum, I get:
>
> | # digest -v -a md5 pkg_get.pkg
> | md5 (pkg_get.pkg) = d79b81b96687d39920c690fe2c3ea76d
>
> This seems not to match with the key in the document. Has there been an
> update of pkg_get?

I'll fix that.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Dennis Clarke



From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 18:56:45 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:56:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
Message-ID: <56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> (posting as new as the topic is new)
>
> Dennis Clarke wrote:
>  >> shuttlebox wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>  >> Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
>  >> to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
>  >> dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
>  >> be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
>  >> go get more to resolve dependencies.
>  >>
>  >> In a better version of blastwave, the check for dependencies
>  >> would happen before downloading the first package.  In a standalone
>  >> environment, the existing model could be used.
>  >>
>  >
>  > Ben, I think that we had spoken about a small PostgreSQL client that
> could
>  > query a database server for the required dependency information.  Do you
>  > think that we could put together a prototype ? I am certainly ready to
>  > create the database server and the query would not be all that complex.
>  > Recursive perhaps  but not complex.
>
> Please, please, do not reinvent the wheel here! Most of the Linux
> distros has solved this in a very elegant way. It might not be possible
> to compile those packages directly on Solaris because of GPL issues, but
> at least their ideas can be leveraged.
>
> Another option is to look to different, but yet similar dependency
> management solutions like Apache Maven which could provide a build system.
>

We can at least discuss possible solutions.


-
Dennis Clarke



From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 18:40:51 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:40:51 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <7CC0CFD1-E3D2-4D2B-8EFB-EF07E2FAB07A@mac.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191150.23981.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<7CC0CFD1-E3D2-4D2B-8EFB-EF07E2FAB07A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <200709191240.53061.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 12:46, Donal McMullan wrote:
> On 20 Sep 2007, at 03:50, Stefan Teleman wrote:
> > On Wednesday 19 September 2007 12:00, Donal McMullan wrote:
> >> If you want to spend your time replacing battle hardened, proven
> >> solutions with the shiniest new thing (in other words, fixing
> >> things that aren't broken) it's probably because you're too
> >> young to appreciate how precious a commodity time is.
> >
> > You should not make assumptions either about my age, or my
> > experience.
>
> A careful reader would note that I made neither; I consider ad
> hominem attacks to be beneath me :P

Good to know. Now you should set an example, and do as you say, and 
not as you do.

> > You seem not to have the time, or interest, in keeping up with
> > the evolving demands of your profession. I think you have a
> > problem.
>
> I see.
>
> I think you didn't touch on "fixing things that aren't broken" -
> the only substantial point I made - because it's transparently
> correct.

Truisms are, generally, transparently correct. They aren't necessarily 
useful.

Solaris 8 is EOF. This fact alone makes Blastwave's development model 
inherently broken.

Not to mention the fact that software product development is, 
generally, never based on the principle of "if it ain't broken don't 
fix it". Although this explains a lot.

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 18:43:01 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:43:01 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070919.16490100.3345372432@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191209.14626.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.16490100.3345372432@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200709191243.01924.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 12:49, James Lee wrote:

> > SunOS 4.2 still works too.
>
> Don't think I can't run Java 1.6 on it.

Ah, yes. Java.

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From ben.taylor at sun.com  Wed Sep 19 19:04:13 2007
From: ben.taylor at sun.com (Ben Taylor)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 13:04:13 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070919.16033100.3997691140@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.16033100.3997691140@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <46F1568D.6070600@Sun.COM>

James Lee wrote:

>
>I am constantly learning new things, what part of "it costs me
>money" did you not hear?
>  
>
Can't wait till it costs you money because Sun doesn't have enough expertise
assigned to Solaris 8 problem resolution.

>Can we get back to how Solaris 8 support affects Solaris 10?
>The 2 reasons Ben Taylor gave being void, any others?
>  
>
I have never *said* stop supporting Solaris 8.    Stop putting words in 
my mouth.

I have consistenly said "don't go to super human effort to port 
applciation to
Solaris 8".  IE, if it doesn't compile out of the box on Solaris 8, move to
Solaris 9.   Even so, there are performance enhancements that are lost
because the SW is compiled for a 7 year old OS and 10 year old hardware.
That's what I call an albatross





From dmcmullan at mac.com  Wed Sep 19 19:05:20 2007
From: dmcmullan at mac.com (Donal McMullan)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 05:05:20 +1200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F15099.2060403@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
	<46F15099.2060403@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <7899B626-A4E9-47C7-B03A-8836D912AAF3@mac.com>

On 20 Sep 2007, at 04:38, Ben Taylor wrote:

> Donal McMullan wrote:
>
>> I think it was Joel Spolsky who pointed out that code as it gets old,
>> doesn't rust. In fact, the longer it runs without incident, the more
>> trusted and valued it becomes.
>>
>>
> And if you've ever been in the situation trying to get support for an
> obsolete OS,
> you'll recognize that the first time you have to go through that, you
> wonder why
> you didn't upgrade earlier.
>
>> If you want to spend your time replacing battle hardened, proven
>> solutions with the shiniest new thing (in other words, fixing things
>> that aren't broken) it's probably because you're too young to
>> appreciate how precious a commodity time is.
>>
>>
> That's right, I couldn't possibly understand having worked in the
> financial markets 15 years
> ago.  I do recognize, having had the job of coordinating all the open
> bugs with Sun as the
> customer, and doing patch management, the hassles involved in getting
> Sun to support
> an aging OS and getting problem resolution done.   Due to the large  
> Sun
> presence and
> huge support costs paid by this org, several times during my stint,  
> Sun
> had to find
> engineers to come out on site and debug the problem because they
> couldn't reproduce
> it internally, and the guy who came out was typically the person who
> wrote the driver
> or module.
>
> Now, after weeks of limited usability of the systems in question, the
> cost to the financial
> org was pretty high because they had stayed on very old HW and an old
> OS.  So I find
> your justification just as *charming*.  I never want to be in the
> position of having to
> answer why I just cost my organization 50K in lost productivity.
>
> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users


I read a story recently about a Solaris 10 deployment that went wrong
and tanked a project. That doesn't make Solaris 10 a poor OS. It's
just anecdotal evidence - like your story.

You'll note that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", still leaves you
perfectly free to fix things that *are* 'broke'; in fact I
consider the fixing of broken things to be commendable.

Donal


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 19:07:14 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 13:07:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191243.01924.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191209.14626.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.16490100.3345372432@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191243.01924.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41316.72.39.216.186.1190221634.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On Wednesday 19 September 2007 12:49, James Lee wrote:
>
>> > SunOS 4.2 still works too.
>>
>> Don't think I can't run Java 1.6 on it.
>
> Ah, yes. Java.

I hate spawning threads that don't take us anywhere .. but .. Java is open
source now and thus in theory we could build Java on my microwave oven.

In theory.

Dennis




From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 18:51:07 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:51:07 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <7899B626-A4E9-47C7-B03A-8836D912AAF3@mac.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F15099.2060403@Sun.COM>
	<7899B626-A4E9-47C7-B03A-8836D912AAF3@mac.com>
Message-ID: <200709191251.08956.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 13:05, Donal McMullan wrote:

> I read a story recently about a Solaris 10 deployment that went
> wrong and tanked a project. That doesn't make Solaris 10 a poor OS.
> It's just anecdotal evidence - like your story.

I read a story recently about someone who got bit in the ass while 
sitting on the can by an 18-foot alligator which jumped out of the 
toilet.

--Stefan

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 19:16:52 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 13:16:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191251.08956.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F15099.2060403@Sun.COM>
	<7899B626-A4E9-47C7-B03A-8836D912AAF3@mac.com>
	<200709191251.08956.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51346.72.39.216.186.1190222212.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On Wednesday 19 September 2007 13:05, Donal McMullan wrote:
>
>> I read a story recently about a Solaris 10 deployment that went
>> wrong and tanked a project. That doesn't make Solaris 10 a poor OS.
>> It's just anecdotal evidence - like your story.
>
> I read a story recently about someone who got bit ....

  Gentlemen :

  It would be nice if we did not descend this maillist into the pit that
  opensolaris-dicuss fell into.

Dennis




From sstallion at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 19:17:56 2007
From: sstallion at gmail.com (Steven Stallion)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:17:56 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <41316.72.39.216.186.1190221634.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<200709191209.14626.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>	<20070919.16490100.3345372432@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<200709191243.01924.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<41316.72.39.216.186.1190221634.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F159C4.9070209@gmail.com>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
> 
> I hate spawning threads that don't take us anywhere .. but .. Java is open
> source now and thus in theory we could build Java on my microwave oven.

While that may be true (in theory), those of us who make use of java in
the workplace very rarely step outside of sun's official vm offerings
for very good reasons.

As it stands, SE 5 just now rules the corporate landscape (since it is
required for Java EE 5). However, when EE 6 is pushed out, (most likely
within the next year or two and adopted a year after that) you can
expect that SE 6 will be a minimal requirement.

Java EE deployments constitute a rather large number of total Sun
customers out there. Albeit, it will take a few years for SE 6 to become
a requirement, but that day is coming. As soon as the major application
server vendors release support for EE 6, you can expect Solaris 8
support to go the way of the dodo.

> 
> In theory.
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users


--
Yet magic and hierarchy
arise from the same source,
and this source has a null pointer.

Reference the NULL within NULL,
it is the gateway to all wizardry.


From dmcmullan at mac.com  Wed Sep 19 19:24:13 2007
From: dmcmullan at mac.com (Donal McMullan)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 05:24:13 +1200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <51346.72.39.216.186.1190222212.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F15099.2060403@Sun.COM>
	<7899B626-A4E9-47C7-B03A-8836D912AAF3@mac.com>
	<200709191251.08956.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<51346.72.39.216.186.1190222212.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <59FDDFA3-B816-47EF-9221-F58609FD56A6@mac.com>


On 20 Sep 2007, at 05:16, Dennis Clarke wrote:

>
>> On Wednesday 19 September 2007 13:05, Donal McMullan wrote:
>>
>>> I read a story recently about a Solaris 10 deployment that went
>>> wrong and tanked a project. That doesn't make Solaris 10 a poor OS.
>>> It's just anecdotal evidence - like your story.
>>
>> I read a story recently about someone who got bit ....
>
>   Gentlemen :
>
>   It would be nice if we did not descend this maillist into the pit  
> that
>   opensolaris-dicuss fell into.
>
> Dennis

Sorry Dennis :)




From sstallion at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 19:34:42 2007
From: sstallion at gmail.com (Steven Stallion)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:34:42 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <51346.72.39.216.186.1190222212.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46F15099.2060403@Sun.COM>	<7899B626-A4E9-47C7-B03A-8836D912AAF3@mac.com>	<200709191251.08956.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<51346.72.39.216.186.1190222212.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F15DB2.1040706@gmail.com>

All,

Everyone has brought up interesting and valid points on both sides of
the fence. Just like all of you, I most definitely have my own opinions
on the matter.

Interestingly enough, I was reflecting on days past when Solaris 8 was
first released.

I was a very happy Solaris 7 user; my sun4m was running in its prime.
Any extra bit of software I needed was provided either by Sun or
sunfreeware. If there was anything left over, It was a simple matter to
compile it by hand; Linux was not as popular, and OSS software was still
relatively easy to port.

Like most early adopters, I eagerly installed Solaris 8 onto my work
station. I was floored; the comparative performance was abysmal, the
software offerings almost negligible, and the release brought along yet
more API changes.

I recall thinking the exact same thing many of you have before "If it's
not broke, why fix it?". I rolled back to Solaris 7 and stayed there for
quite some time.

Eventually I moved on to Solaris 8. The performance was still wretched,
but at the very least there was ample 3rd party software available for
use. It was a forced migration, and not a very pleasant one.

This was almost 10 years ago.

--
Yet magic and hierarchy
arise from the same source,
and this source has a null pointer.

Reference the NULL within NULL,
it is the gateway to all wizardry.


From Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM  Wed Sep 19 21:37:49 2007
From: Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM (Ben Taylor)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:37:49 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>

shuttlebox wrote:

>On 9/19/07, Ben Taylor <Ben.Taylor at sun.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>The bloat is the duplication of packages in blastwave that
>>are in Solaris, especially as you move from 8 to 9 to 10 to
>>11 (nevada).
>>    
>>
Wish you hadn't cut off the next part, where I recognize that Blastwave must
duplicate packages because they cannot depend on Sun to deliver bug fixes
to those patches in a timely manner, or new features in any patch..

>But Suns packages are often not the latest even at release and then
>they will normally just get security fixes and no version upgrades
>which bring new features. As you said, Solaris 10 is almost 3 years
>old now and many want to use fresher versions of bash, perl, Gnome or
>whatever.
>  
>
exactly.

I understand this.  However, there is a goodly portion of the world 
(inside and out of Sun)
that complains pretty vehemently about the "bloat".  I suspect it's more 
a marketing problem
for Blastwave, because most folks don't really understand the 
interdependencies with the
modules, or why Blastwave would choose to use a newer version of a 
module over the
one delivered with Solaris.

>It's up to the user/admin to remove Suns packages if the bloat is a
>problem which it might be due to the extremely annoying patch process.
>  
>
And if you're a production server, in the past, removing packages had a 
tendency to
give Sun support a massive case of kittens.  Anyone who has called Sun 
Support knows
the first question out of the mouth of the person from Bangalore 
(typically) is
"Have you patched?".  Only recently were systems "supported" that were 
minimized.

>How would it be better for users if Blastwave didn't offer the
>"bloat", if they roll their own packages or just compile it into /opt
>or /usr/local they will still end up with bloat unless they remove the
>obsolete versions which belong to Sun, not Blastwave? I think the
>question is - who offers the bloat, Sun or Blastwave? To you, it's
>Blastwave since they are installed later but to me it's Sun because
>they bring what I don't want to/can't use.
>  
>
you're splitting hairs about who creates the bloat.  To the rest of the 
world, the duplication
of packages looks like the bloat is created by Blastwave.  Me, I don't 
give a rats @$$.
Blastwave is by far the best in terms of reducing the amount of 
compiling packages I need
and reducing the amount of manual work I have to do.  I size my 
partitions with the knowledge
that I need to assign 2Gb for blastwave software so I don't over run my 
root partition.

>If you rely heavily on Blastwave packages maybe you could install a
>smaller cluster of Solaris to reduce the bloat from the start?
>  
>
I've suggested to Dennis several times that it might be interesting to 
develop a workstaion
installation model for Solaris to make sure there isn't duplication of 
packages.

>>Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
>>to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
>>dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
>>be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
>>go get more to resolve dependencies.
>>
>>In a better version of blastwave, the check for dependencies
>>would happen before downloading the first package.  In a standalone
>>environment, the existing model could be used.
>>    
>>
>
>Well, at least Blastwave handles dependencies in an automatic fashion
>instead of just barfing. ;-) I agree though, that it would be nice if
>both pkg-get and the web site optionally could list ALL dependencies
>for a package.
>  
>
Don't get me wrong, having the dependencies in there is definitely 
beneficial.  I remember haivng
to install something from Sun FxxxWxxx and felt like I wanted to chop 
off my toes after having
to do that dance.

A database that managed all the dependencies would probably be 
beneficial to the entire
blastwave development community in terms of managing that sort of thing.



From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 21:50:51 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:50:51 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>

Some comments

1 - Instead of providing the /opt/csw tree blastwave turns its resources 
to keeping the latest and greatest freeware in opensolaris. The fact 
that opensolaris is pretty up-to-date with lots of packages, though not 
always the very latest and greatest, says we might want to rethink 
things. Indiana also plays into account here.
2 - Come up with the charter statement that details if/when blastwave 
stops providing support for older OS. I've never seen this in writing 
and it would come in quite handy. People would know when support starts 
and ends giving them enough time to migrate. The fact that we're 
discussing this is the major headache not when we cut S8 or S9 support.
3 - Given blastwave is a volunteer effort its up to the maintainers - 
Thats the other email list - to decide what gets supported or not. It 
doesn't matter what everyone else thinks. It matters what the 
maintainers think....with Dennis and Phil owning majority shares. :-)
4 - We still need to provide some solutions to the fact that the 
/opt/csw tree can conflict with other packages. I got an interesting 
email from someone at Sun that said it wasn't the bloat that ticked him 
off but that we weren't linking things in a correct fashion to avoid 
conflicts.



From a.cervellin at acm.org  Wed Sep 19 22:02:36 2007
From: a.cervellin at acm.org (Alessio)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:02:36 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>
	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46F1805C.9080108@acm.org>

Torrey McMahon wrote:

> 3 - Given blastwave is a volunteer effort its up to the maintainers - 
> Thats the other email list - to decide what gets supported or not. It 
> doesn't matter what everyone else thinks. It matters what the 
> maintainers think....with Dennis and Phil owning majority shares. :-)

and James too :)

> 4 - We still need to provide some solutions to the fact that the 
> /opt/csw tree can conflict with other packages. I got an interesting 
> email from someone at Sun that said it wasn't the bloat that ticked him 
> off but that we weren't linking things in a correct fashion to avoid 
> conflicts.

can you provide the example, please?
just to understand...


From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 22:15:05 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:15:05 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F1805C.9080108@acm.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<46F1805C.9080108@acm.org>
Message-ID: <46F18349.3040509@yahoo.com>

Alessio wrote:
> Torrey McMahon wrote:
>   
>> 4 - We still need to provide some solutions to the fact that the 
>> /opt/csw tree can conflict with other packages. I got an interesting 
>> email from someone at Sun that said it wasn't the bloat that ticked him 
>> off but that we weren't linking things in a correct fashion to avoid 
>> conflicts.
>>     
>
> can you provide the example, please?
> just to understand...

Someone much smarter then me - At least in this area :-) - said....

    It is far from harmless, in fact it is HIGHLY toxic.  It isn't the
    /opt/csw/bin that it the problem but the duplicate but different
    versions of stuff from /usr/lib and other Solaris core lib
    directories it duplicates into /opt/csw/lib.  This can and will lead
    to very hard to diagnoise problems due to more of more of the
    following (plus some others): multiple different binary libs in same
    process, similar libs with partialy the same API (libldap vs
    openldap variant is one very toxic case), correct API/ABI but
    different build options for same libary, etc.

    The only correct way out of this is to rebase Blastwave for each
    operating system version so that it never duplicates libraries that
    are part of the core OS unless it does so by linking them RLTD_GROUP
    (which it doesn't). ld(1) -B group




From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 22:28:03 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:28:03 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F18349.3040509@yahoo.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>	<46F1805C.9080108@acm.org>
	<46F18349.3040509@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46F18653.7030404@yahoo.com>

Torrey McMahon wrote:
> Alessio wrote:
>   
>> Torrey McMahon wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> 4 - We still need to provide some solutions to the fact that the 
>>> /opt/csw tree can conflict with other packages. I got an interesting 
>>> email from someone at Sun that said it wasn't the bloat that ticked him 
>>> off but that we weren't linking things in a correct fashion to avoid 
>>> conflicts.
>>>     
>>>       
>> can you provide the example, please?
>> just to understand...
>>     
>
> Someone much smarter then me - At least in this area :-) - said....
>
>     It is far from harmless, in fact it is HIGHLY toxic.  It isn't the
>     /opt/csw/bin that it the problem but the duplicate but different
>     versions of stuff from /usr/lib and other Solaris core lib
>     directories it duplicates into /opt/csw/lib.  This can and will lead
>     to very hard to diagnoise problems due to more of more of the
>     following (plus some others): multiple different binary libs in same
>     process, similar libs with partialy the same API (libldap vs
>     openldap variant is one very toxic case), correct API/ABI but
>     different build options for same libary, etc.
>
>     The only correct way out of this is to rebase Blastwave for each
>     operating system version so that it never duplicates libraries that
>     are part of the core OS unless it does so by linking them RLTD_GROUP
>     (which it doesn't). ld(1) -B group
>
>   

Though that should have been RTLD_GROUP


From anthony.cogan at thinkunix.com  Wed Sep 19 22:28:19 2007
From: anthony.cogan at thinkunix.com (Anthony Cogan)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:28:19 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F18349.3040509@yahoo.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<46F1805C.9080108@acm.org> <46F18349.3040509@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9A5D3222-3172-4E58-B02F-7C49F824622E@thinkunix.com>

Seriously, can't this thread end?



From ben.taylor at sun.com  Wed Sep 19 22:34:19 2007
From: ben.taylor at sun.com (Ben Taylor)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:34:19 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F18349.3040509@yahoo.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<46F1805C.9080108@acm.org> <46F18349.3040509@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46F187CB.7020406@Sun.COM>

Torrey McMahon wrote:

>Alessio wrote:
>  
>
>>Torrey McMahon wrote:
>>  
>>    
>>
>>>4 - We still need to provide some solutions to the fact that the 
>>>/opt/csw tree can conflict with other packages. I got an interesting 
>>>email from someone at Sun that said it wasn't the bloat that ticked him 
>>>off but that we weren't linking things in a correct fashion to avoid 
>>>conflicts.
>>>    
>>>      
>>>
>>can you provide the example, please?
>>just to understand...
>>    
>>
>
>Someone much smarter then me - At least in this area :-) - said....
>
>    It is far from harmless, in fact it is HIGHLY toxic.  It isn't the
>    /opt/csw/bin that it the problem but the duplicate but different
>    versions of stuff from /usr/lib and other Solaris core lib
>    directories it duplicates into /opt/csw/lib.  This can and will lead
>    to very hard to diagnoise problems due to more of more of the
>    following (plus some others): multiple different binary libs in same
>    process, similar libs with partialy the same API (libldap vs
>    openldap variant is one very toxic case), correct API/ABI but
>    different build options for same libary, etc.
>
>    The only correct way out of this is to rebase Blastwave for each
>    operating system version so that it never duplicates libraries that
>    are part of the core OS unless it does so by linking them RLTD_GROUP
>    (which it doesn't). ld(1) -B group
>  
>
Not to mention that anyone who insists on using LD_LIBRARY_PATH  or 
fiddles with
crle can create no end of problems.

Ben


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 23:10:34 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:10:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] LD_LIBRARY_PATH evil
Message-ID: <45694.72.39.216.186.1190236234.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


>
>Someone much smarter then me - At least in this area :-) - said....
>
>    It is far from harmless, in fact it is HIGHLY toxic.  It isn't the
>    /opt/csw/bin that it the problem but the duplicate but different
>    versions of stuff from /usr/lib and other Solaris core lib
>    directories it duplicates into /opt/csw/lib.  This can and will lead
>    to very hard to diagnoise problems due to more of more of the
>    following (plus some others): multiple different binary libs in same
>    process, similar libs with partialy the same API (libldap vs
>    openldap variant is one very toxic case), correct API/ABI but
>    different build options for same libary, etc.
>
>    The only correct way out of this is to rebase Blastwave for each
>    operating system version so that it never duplicates libraries that
>    are part of the core OS unless it does so by linking them RLTD_GROUP
>    (which it doesn't). ld(1) -B group
>
>
>Not to mention that anyone who insists on using LD_LIBRARY_PATH  or
>fiddles with crle can create no end of problems.

I thought we had agreed back in 2002 that LD_LIBRARY_PATH was evil and too
be avoided.

I generally build and link with very simple environment vars in place
and have had no problems. Even with GCC 4.2.1 builds.

I would like to open up discussions on how we could install a core Solaris
10 Update 4 workstation config and then pkg-get -i gnome and see what
problems have been created.

I can easily do this with Solaris 8 but that defeats the purpose.

As you can tell .. I am making a ham handed approach at moving forwards with
constructive discussions.

Dennis



From magrawal at coba.usf.edu  Wed Sep 19 23:21:53 2007
From: magrawal at coba.usf.edu (Manish Agrawal)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:21:53 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] vimtutor bad trap problem when /opt/csw/bin not in
	$PATH
In-Reply-To: <46F123DE.3000503@fzd.de>
References: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
	<46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>
	<op.tywkncjez3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
	<46F123DE.3000503@fzd.de>
Message-ID: <op.tyw6yra8z3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>

But aren't Blastwave packages supposed to just work out of the box?

Manish


On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:27:58 -0400, Jens Langner <J.Langner at fzd.de> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Manish Agrawal schrieb:
>> Thanks very much, there are some problems:
>>
>> 1. Every student will have to do this hack in their own respective zones. They are all newbies. Since they don't know vi, how are they going to write this script in the first place? Yesterday, we all used /opt/csw/bin/pkg-get install nano to get an editor available.
>>
>> 2. What is the point of having vimtutor in the first place if it does not work with the default paths? Isn't vimtutor for newbies?
>>
>> 3. What are fresh users going to think of Solaris and vim if they have to first do this hack before they can use a tutorial meant for newbies?
>>
>> The best solution for me is to copy /etc/default/login from the global zone while creating the zone using zonemgr, but I don't want to do it and would prefer vimtutor to just work out of the box with the Solaris defaults.
>
> You are anyway using blastwave and vim which isn't a solaris default. I
> really can't see why it hurts to automatically copy your own
> /etc/default/login to all zones as soon as you create them.
>
> cheers,
> jens
> - --
> Jens Langner                                         Ph: +49-351-2602757
> Forschungszentrum Dresden-Rossendorf e.V.
> Institute of Radiopharmacy - PET Center                 J.Langner at fzd.de
> Germany                                               http://www.fzd.de/
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iQCVAwUBRvEj3pFDGXNZvoo5AQLyPgQAgwJxpnuiJmC+1buum28FCQBQxYLZVlPt
> M50GjoThMB22n2AM5bxq0c4874Y3e770mdIjgtP4JjMTSR9KWF6hVzHEB+v1AHJ0
> Ku8Fphvwtt4aXFjtiBARUmxySMynn8Kb1eeI38YVVdfzUrWzguK1vDxqFjPbZQUt
> NAoIdhARJ6g=
> =w1wl
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>


From a.cervellin at acm.org  Thu Sep 20 00:40:46 2007
From: a.cervellin at acm.org (Alessio)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:40:46 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] vimtutor bad trap problem when /opt/csw/bin not in
 $PATH
In-Reply-To: <op.tyw6yra8z3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
References: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>	<46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>	<op.tywkncjez3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>	<46F123DE.3000503@fzd.de>
	<op.tyw6yra8z3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <46F1A56E.1030808@acm.org>

Manish Agrawal wrote:
> But aren't Blastwave packages supposed to just work out of the box?

yes, out of the box following the given instructions.
 From http://www.blastwave.org/howto.html:
[...]
Next item is the default PATH for the root user and regular users. You 
can set this in the files /etc/default/login and /etc/default/su. Please 
feel free to be pedantic and set PATH and SUPATH in both of those files 
to something useful thus :

PATH=/opt/csw/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/ccs/bin 

[...]

Anyway, i'm not saying vimtutor has not a bug... it should work without 
/opt/csw/bin in PATH too, so feel free to submit a bug report here: 
http://www.blastwave.org/mantis and see what the package maintainer has 
to say.


From pgress at optonline.net  Thu Sep 20 05:56:26 2007
From: pgress at optonline.net (Paul Gress)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 23:56:26 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F1EF6A.2020000@optonline.net>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
> We can at least discuss possible solutions.
>
>
> -
> Dennis Clarke
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
>   
Here's two suggestions from me.

Use the libraries from OpenSolaris.  Since it's open source there should 
be no problem.  For Solaris 8-9 and possibly 10, but not 11, OpenSolaris 
libs would be in /opt/csw.  If your downloading software for Solaris 11, 
you already have the libs in /usr/lib.  So Solaris 11 wouldn't bloat 
that much.  Solaris 10 slightly and more for each older version.

My other suggestion is, use different install scripts for differnent 
versions of Solaris.  Basically it would just scan for installed 
libraries, and not duplicate them.

Maybe a combo of both would suffice.

Paul


From shuttlebox at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 09:04:46 2007
From: shuttlebox at gmail.com (shuttlebox)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:04:46 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <625385e30709200004x37df1d0asd413e244b5699c86@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/19/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
> >  > Ben, I think that we had spoken about a small PostgreSQL client that
> > could
> >  > query a database server for the required dependency information.  Do you
> >  > think that we could put together a prototype ? I am certainly ready to
> >  > create the database server and the query would not be all that complex.
> >  > Recursive perhaps  but not complex.

And this would be something for the web site I hope? I certainly don't
want PostgreSQL running on all my servers just for the dependency
handling which already works fine.

Is there a reason why we can't follow all dependencies with the
current technology?

-- 
/peter


From shuttlebox at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 10:14:24 2007
From: shuttlebox at gmail.com (shuttlebox)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:14:24 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <625385e30709200004x37df1d0asd413e244b5699c86@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<625385e30709200004x37df1d0asd413e244b5699c86@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <625385e30709200114j375be92dw1095ab15c8727809@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/20/07, shuttlebox <shuttlebox at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a reason why we can't follow all dependencies with the
> current technology?

Replying to myself... ;-)

I haven't really looked at it before but it seems that pkg-get must
use the depend file in the actual package to work out the dependencies
(I can't find such info in the catalog or description files). Wouldn't
it be possible to include the top-level dependencies in the catalog
file. That would make it possible to parse all dependencies offline so
to speak.

The first line in the catalog file would go from:

9menu 1.8,REV=2006.05.19 CSW9menu 9menu-1.8,REV=2006.05.19-SunOS5.8-i386-CSW.pkg
.gz 11db5974f3b19b40fdec0d94e66d8552

to:

9menu 1.8,REV=2006.05.19 CSW9menu 9menu-1.8,REV=2006.05.19-SunOS5.8-i386-CSW.pkg
.gz 11db5974f3b19b40fdec0d94e66d8552 common

Even a beast like Gnome doesn't have more than 40 top-level
dependencies so it shouldn't be a space problem.

Phil?

-- 
/peter


From james at blastwave.org  Thu Sep 20 10:42:53 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 08:42:53 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 19/09/07, 20:50:51, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding 
Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> 2 - Come up with the charter statement that details if/when blastwave
> stops providing support for older OS. I've never seen this in writing
> and it would come in quite handy. People would know when support starts
> and ends giving them enough time to migrate. The fact that we're
> discussing this is the major headache not when we cut S8 or S9 support.

Great idea, as with most great ideas this has been done, obviously not
publicly enough.  The statement was that Blastwave would support S8
as long as Sun did (I'm not sure what those dates are though).




James.




From james at blastwave.org  Thu Sep 20 10:53:41 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 08:53:41 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F1568D.6070600@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.16033100.3997691140@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1568D.6070600@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <20070920.8534100.2053484285@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 19/09/07, 18:04:13, Ben Taylor <ben.taylor at sun.com> wrote regarding Re:
[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> >Can we get back to how Solaris 8 support affects Solaris 10?
> >The 2 reasons Ben Taylor gave being void, any others?
> >
> >
> I have never *said* stop supporting Solaris 8.    Stop putting words in
> my mouth.

"Ridiculous" and "wasted effort" followed by a series of insults to
S8 users - my apologies for confusing your words with negativeness.


> I have consistenly said "don't go to super human effort to port
> applciation to
> Solaris 8".  IE, if it doesn't compile out of the box on Solaris 8,
>  move toSolaris 9.

These advanced feature to which you refer exist in S10, so the same
support problem will exist for S9.  You have a point but it's not
specific to S8.

Due to the interdependence of software one small fork leads to a big
forking problem.  Currently overall maintainer effort is minimised by
keeping parity across the OS revs, the work is done by Sun and their
guarantee of upward compatibility.

It's interesting that is in the users' list, I'm touched by the care
you express for the effort made by maintainers on your behalf.  Make
sure you include the overall effort factor when worrying about
maintainer workload but really we need know here: how does S8 support
affects S10 users?


> Even so, there are performance enhancements that are lost
> because the SW is compiled for a 7 year old OS and 10 year old hardware.

Can you provide some detail?  The chip architectures for S8 are the
same for S9 so again it's not just a S8 problem.  Can you say why the
S10 and arch binaries in the S8 packages and the specific S10 packages
from Blastwave don't provide these benefits?




James.


From a.cervellin at acm.org  Thu Sep 20 11:13:45 2007
From: a.cervellin at acm.org (Alessio)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:13:45 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <625385e30709200114j375be92dw1095ab15c8727809@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>	<625385e30709200004x37df1d0asd413e244b5699c86@mail.gmail.com>
	<625385e30709200114j375be92dw1095ab15c8727809@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46F239C9.2060508@acm.org>

shuttlebox wrote:

> I haven't really looked at it before but it seems that pkg-get must
> use the depend file in the actual package to work out the dependencies
> (I can't find such info in the catalog or description files). Wouldn't
> it be possible to include the top-level dependencies in the catalog
> file. That would make it possible to parse all dependencies offline so
> to speak.

i think this is a good idea... Phil?


From pjama at optusnet.com.au  Thu Sep 20 11:48:42 2007
From: pjama at optusnet.com.au (pjama)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:48:42 +1000
Subject: [csw-users] Solaris 10 8/07 and CSW. All mozilla prods dump core
Message-ID: <46F241FA.6070403@optusnet.com.au>

Can someone give me a hand here?

I've done a fresh install of Solaris 10 U4 (8/07) and installed various blastwave packages using pkg-get (ie it gets all dependencies)

Firefox, thunderbird and mozilla all dump core when I try to run them. The solaris bundled firefox runs fine.


I think this is the offending segment in a truss file but I'd appreciate any comments.

5386/1:         close(26)                                       = 0
5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/75dpi//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
5386/1:         openat(-3041965, "/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/75dpi/", O_RDONLY|O_NDELAY|O_LARGEFILE) Err#2 ENOENT
5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/TT//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
5386/1:         openat(-3041965, "/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/TT/", O_RDONLY|O_NDELAY|O_LARGEFILE) Err#2 ENOENT
5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/75dpi//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) = 26
5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/75dpi/", 0xFFBF72A8) = 0
5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/75dpi//fonts.cache-csw-1", 0xFFBF7220) = 0
5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF71D8)                         = 0
5386/1:         brk(0x003E1DB8)                                 = 0
5386/1:         brk(0x003E3DB8)                                 = 0
5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF7080)                         = 0
5386/1:         ioctl(26, TCGETA, 0xFFBF7164)                   Err#25 ENOTTY
5386/1:         read(26, 0x003E0D34, 8192)                      = 0
5386/1:         llseek(26, 0, SEEK_CUR)                         = 0
5386/1:         close(26)                                       = 0
5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/TT//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) = 26
5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/TT/", 0xFFBF72A8) = 0
5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/TT//fonts.cache-csw-1", 0xFFBF7220) = 0
5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF71D8)                         = 0
5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF7080)                         = 0
5386/1:         ioctl(26, TCGETA, 0xFFBF7164)                   Err#25 ENOTTY
5386/1:         read(26, " " m i n g . t t f "   0".., 8192)    = 8192
5386/1:         read(26, "\0\0\0 ,12\0\015\0\0 g M".., 8192)    = 3648
5386/1:         brk(0x003E3DB8)                                 = 0
5386/1:         brk(0x003E5DB8)                                 = 0
5386/1:             Incurred fault #6, FLTBOUNDS  %pc = 0xFE3C30B4
5386/1:               siginfo: SIGSEGV SEGV_MAPERR addr=0x00000000
5386/1:             Received signal #11, SIGSEGV [caught]
5386/1:               siginfo: SIGSEGV SEGV_MAPERR addr=0x00000000
5386/1:         lwp_sigmask(SIG_SETMASK, 0xFFBFFEFF, 0x0000FFF7) = 0xFFBFFEFF [0x0000FFFF]
5386/1:         unlink("/home/peter/.mozilla/firefox/r5k5f13q.default/lock") = 0
5386/1:         sigaction(SIGSEGV, 0xFFBF4B80, 0x00000000)      = 0
5386/1:         lwp_sigmask(SIG_SETMASK, 0xFFBFFAFF, 0x0000FFF7) = 0xFFBFFEFF [0x0000FFFF]
5386/1:         lwp_kill(1, SIGSEGV)                            = 0
5386/1:             Received signal #11, SIGSEGV [default]
5386/1:               siginfo: SIGSEGV pid=5386 uid=1021 code=-1
5390:   pollsys(0x00061710, 5, 0xFFBFEB48, 0x00000000) (sleeping...)
5374:   waitid(P_PID, 5386, 0xFFBFE890, WEXITED|WTRAPPED|WNOWAIT) = 0
5374:   ioctl(0, TIOCGPGRP, 0xFFBFE8AC)                 = 0
5374:   ioctl(0, TCGETS, 0x00039178)                    = 0
5374:   waitid(P_PID, 5386, 0xFFBFE890, WEXITED|WTRAPPED) = 0
5374:   write(2, " S e g m e n t a t i o n".., 33)      = 33
5374:   brk(0x0003F490)                                 = 0
5374:   brk(0x0003F290)                                 = 0
5374:   _exit(139) 

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From trygvis at inamo.no  Thu Sep 20 12:34:10 2007
From: trygvis at inamo.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Trygve_Laugst=F8l?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:34:10 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F24CA2.7060803@inamo.no>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
>> (posting as new as the topic is new)
>>
>> Dennis Clarke wrote:
>>  >> shuttlebox wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>  >> Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
>>  >> to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
>>  >> dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
>>  >> be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
>>  >> go get more to resolve dependencies.
>>  >>
>>  >> In a better version of blastwave, the check for dependencies
>>  >> would happen before downloading the first package.  In a standalone
>>  >> environment, the existing model could be used.
>>  >>
>>  >
>>  > Ben, I think that we had spoken about a small PostgreSQL client that
>> could
>>  > query a database server for the required dependency information.  Do you
>>  > think that we could put together a prototype ? I am certainly ready to
>>  > create the database server and the query would not be all that complex.
>>  > Recursive perhaps  but not complex.
>>
>> Please, please, do not reinvent the wheel here! Most of the Linux
>> distros has solved this in a very elegant way. It might not be possible
>> to compile those packages directly on Solaris because of GPL issues, but
>> at least their ideas can be leveraged.
>>
>> Another option is to look to different, but yet similar dependency
>> management solutions like Apache Maven which could provide a build system.
>>
> 
> We can at least discuss possible solutions.

That's all I'm asking for :)

--
Trygve


From a.cervellin at acm.org  Thu Sep 20 15:02:59 2007
From: a.cervellin at acm.org (Alessio)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:02:59 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <46F24CA2.7060803@inamo.no>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F24CA2.7060803@inamo.no>
Message-ID: <46F26F83.3070109@acm.org>

Trygve Laugst?l wrote:

>>> Another option is to look to different, but yet similar dependency
>>> management solutions like Apache Maven which could provide a build system.
>>>
>> We can at least discuss possible solutions.
> 
> That's all I'm asking for :)

couldn't we just start by having dependencies specified in the catalog file?


From yann at pleiades.fr.eu.org  Thu Sep 20 15:14:02 2007
From: yann at pleiades.fr.eu.org (Yann Rouillard)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:14:02 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <46F26F83.3070109@acm.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F24CA2.7060803@inamo.no>  <46F26F83.3070109@acm.org>
Message-ID: <1190294042.7562.12.camel@celaeno>


Le jeudi 20 septembre 2007 ? 15:02 +0200, Alessio a ?crit :
> Trygve Laugst?l wrote:
> 
> >>> Another option is to look to different, but yet similar dependency
> >>> management solutions like Apache Maven which could provide a build system.
> >>>
> >> We can at least discuss possible solutions.
> > 
> > That's all I'm asking for :)
> 
> couldn't we just start by having dependencies specified in the catalog file?

This has already been asked in the past.
Phil is the one you have to convince.

At my work, we use a rewritten pkg-get which handle dependancies this
way, except they are written in a separate file.

I put it in the GAR tree but never published it:
http://svn.blastwave.org/trac/browser/csw/trunk/utils/ppkg_get

Yann



From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 15:57:03 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:57:03 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>
	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>

James Lee wrote:
> On 19/09/07, 20:50:51, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding 
> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>   
>> 2 - Come up with the charter statement that details if/when blastwave
>> stops providing support for older OS. I've never seen this in writing
>> and it would come in quite handy. People would know when support starts
>> and ends giving them enough time to migrate. The fact that we're
>> discussing this is the major headache not when we cut S8 or S9 support.
>>     
>
> Great idea, as with most great ideas this has been done, obviously not
> publicly enough.  The statement was that Blastwave would support S8
> as long as Sun did (I'm not sure what those dates are though).
>   

Which date? Last ship date? EOL? EOSL?

http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml



From james at blastwave.org  Thu Sep 20 16:35:31 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:35:31 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 20/09/07, 14:57:03, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding
Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> > publicly enough.  The statement was that Blastwave would support S8
> > as long as Sun did (I'm not sure what those dates are though).
> >

> Which date? Last ship date? EOL? EOSL?

> http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml

2009-03-31 looks like end of support to me.

Phase 2 to us might mean keeping the archive on the mirrors but
not updating, "access to existing".




James.


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Thu Sep 20 17:20:24 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:20:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On 20/09/07, 14:57:03, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding
> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>> > publicly enough.  The statement was that Blastwave would support S8
>> > as long as Sun did (I'm not sure what those dates are though).
>> >
>
>> Which date? Last ship date? EOL? EOSL?
>
>> http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml
>
> 2009-03-31 looks like end of support to me.
>
> Phase 2 to us might mean keeping the archive on the mirrors but
> not updating, "access to existing".
>

Solaris 8 End Of Service Life is 03/31/12

Dennis


From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 17:37:00 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:37:00 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>
	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
>> On 20/09/07, 14:57:03, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding
>> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>>
>>     
>>>> publicly enough.  The statement was that Blastwave would support S8
>>>> as long as Sun did (I'm not sure what those dates are though).
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> Which date? Last ship date? EOL? EOSL?
>>>       
>>> http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml
>>>       
>> 2009-03-31 looks like end of support to me.
>>
>> Phase 2 to us might mean keeping the archive on the mirrors but
>> not updating, "access to existing".
>>
>>     
>
> Solaris 8 End Of Service Life is 03/31/12
>   

I would assert that Sun has more resources in the support space then 
Blastwave does and that aligning with the Sun support documents isn't 
the best thing to do. Do we really want to maintain Solaris 8 packages 
for an other 4+ years? What about Solaris 9?

Something to think about. This discussion should probably me moved to 
maintainers.




From trygvis at inamo.no  Thu Sep 20 15:36:02 2007
From: trygvis at inamo.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Trygve_Laugst=F8l?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:36:02 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <46F26F83.3070109@acm.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F24CA2.7060803@inamo.no> <46F26F83.3070109@acm.org>
Message-ID: <46F27742.1010403@inamo.no>

Alessio wrote:
> Trygve Laugst?l wrote:
> 
>>>> Another option is to look to different, but yet similar dependency
>>>> management solutions like Apache Maven which could provide a build system.
>>>>
>>> We can at least discuss possible solutions.
>> That's all I'm asking for :)
> 
> couldn't we just start by having dependencies specified in the catalog file?

That's a good start, yes.

--
Trygve


From trygvis at inamo.no  Thu Sep 20 15:43:05 2007
From: trygvis at inamo.no (=?UTF-8?B?VHJ5Z3ZlIExhdWdzdMO4bA==?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:43:05 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <1190294042.7562.12.camel@celaeno>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F24CA2.7060803@inamo.no> <46F26F83.3070109@acm.org>
	<1190294042.7562.12.camel@celaeno>
Message-ID: <46F278E9.5090505@inamo.no>

Yann Rouillard wrote:
> Le jeudi 20 septembre 2007 ? 15:02 +0200, Alessio a ?crit :
>> Trygve Laugst?l wrote:
>>
>>>>> Another option is to look to different, but yet similar dependency
>>>>> management solutions like Apache Maven which could provide a build system.
>>>>>
>>>> We can at least discuss possible solutions.
>>> That's all I'm asking for :)
>> couldn't we just start by having dependencies specified in the catalog file?
> 
> This has already been asked in the past.
> Phil is the one you have to convince.
> 
> At my work, we use a rewritten pkg-get which handle dependancies this
> way, except they are written in a separate file.
> 
> I put it in the GAR tree but never published it:
> http://svn.blastwave.org/trac/browser/csw/trunk/utils/ppkg_get

Please do, it work for me and looks very useful.

--
Trygve


From a.cervellin at acm.org  Thu Sep 20 18:32:50 2007
From: a.cervellin at acm.org (Alessio)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:32:50 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46F2A0B2.4070200@acm.org>

Torrey McMahon wrote:

> I would assert that Sun has more resources in the support space then 
> Blastwave does

are you sure?
it's not a matter of numbers but ratios: approximatively i'd say 
blastwave has 100 maintainers working on 1000 products serving a few 
thousands users with an average of 2-3 open issues for package on our 
issue tracking system.


From binod3 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 21 04:39:47 2007
From: binod3 at gmail.com (Binod)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:39:47 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
Message-ID: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, all

I downloaded and installed all the dependenicies required for subversion
1.4.3 for solaris 10 and
now when i try the command

bash-3.00# svn
ld.so.1: svn: fatal: libssl.so.0.9.8: open failed: No such file or directory
Killed

So, how do i fix this ? WHAT AM I missing ?

My Path is
bash-3.00# echo $PATH
/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sfw/bin:/usr/local/bin:/opt/csw/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/ucb:

And when I do pwd and ls I see all the commands?

bash-3.00# pwd
/opt/csw/bin
bash-3.00# ls
amd64                   gmsgcmp                 gmsgmerge
gxgettext               svn
certtool                gmsgcomm                gmsgunfmt
i486                    svnadmin
gautopoint              gmsgconv                gmsguniq
libgcrypt-config        svndumpfilter
genvsubst               gmsgen                  gngettext
libgnutls-config        svnlook
gettext.sh              gmsgexec                gnutls-cli
libgnutls-extra-config  svnserve
ggettext                gmsgfilter              gnutls-cli-debug
libnet-config           svnsync
ggettextize             gmsgfmt                 gnutls-serv
pentium                 svnversion
gmsgattrib              gmsggrep                gpg-error
psktool
gmsgcat                 gmsginit                gpg-error-config
srptool


I guess i am being dumb here, but please anykind of help will be
appreciated.

Thanks,


On 9/20/07, users-request at lists.blastwave.org <
users-request at lists.blastwave.org> wrote:
>
> Welcome to the users at lists.blastwave.org mailing list! Welcome to the
> Blastwave users list! This is a general discussion maillist about the
> software from blastwave, the people and processes within the blastwave
> project and the users that actually use the software. This is a
> Solaris and OpenSolaris community based email list and thus Linux
> questions *may* be off topic. Everything else is fair game.
>
> To post to this list, send your email to:
>
>   users at lists.blastwave.org
>
> General information about the mailing list is at:
>
>   https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
> If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to
> or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your
> subscription page at:
>
>   https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/options/users/binod3%40gmail.com
>
> You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to:
>
>   users-request at lists.blastwave.org
>
> with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the
> quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions.
>
> You must know your password to change your options (including changing
> the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.  It is:
>
>   chikne
>
> Normally, Mailman will remind you of your lists.blastwave.org mailing
> list passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you
> prefer.  This reminder will also include instructions on how to
> unsubscribe or change your account options.  There is also a button on
> your options page that will email your current password to you.
>
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From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 21 05:24:18 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:24:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
In-Reply-To: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50776.72.39.216.186.1190345058.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Hi, all
>
> I downloaded and installed all the dependenicies required for subversion
> 1.4.3 for solaris 10 and now when i try the command

what do you mean when you say " downloaded and installed all the
dependenicies  " ?

did you manually do this or did you run pkg-get -i svn

> bash-3.00# svn
> ld.so.1: svn: fatal: libssl.so.0.9.8: open failed: No such file or directory
> Killed

I don't know what svn that is.

what do you get from

    which svn

Dennis Clarke



From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 21 05:28:58 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:28:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
In-Reply-To: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <35924.72.39.216.186.1190345338.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Hi, all

Try the following :

/opt/csw/bin/pkg-get -U

/opt/csw/bin/pkg-get -i subversion

That will get you subversion 1.4.3,REV=2007.02.19

then change your PATH to

PATH=/opt/csw/sbin:/opt/csw/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/ccs/bin

then see what happens



Dennis Clarke



From binod3 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 21 06:32:02 2007
From: binod3 at gmail.com (Binod)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:32:02 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
In-Reply-To: <35924.72.39.216.186.1190345338.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
	<35924.72.39.216.186.1190345338.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <111cdbc80709202132s64f19528q3b2b1b15e89e4b4c@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry my bad, regarding that,

I hadn't installed some of the packages.

I installed by doing pkg -add and all the files that were available in the
blastwave.

Its already midnight so, I don't want to work on it anymore, but I wanted to
know that whether after installing all the dependencies , will i be able to
use mailer.py and .py files or not?

Do I have to do anything else to get .py files working?( besides running
subversion repos. is there anyway I can check whether python bindings are
working or not without acutaly running .py files?)

I just created a /tmp/subversion/repos and haven't created any projects or
anything like that. I ran the svnserve in deamon mode and went ahead and ran
pre-commit-check.py and i got the following messages :

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./pre-commit-check.py", line 6, in ?
    from svn import repos, fs, delta, core
ImportError: No module named svn

Should I be worried?

I will really appreciate your help.
Thanks,


On 9/20/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
>
>
> > Hi, all
>
> Try the following :
>
> /opt/csw/bin/pkg-get -U
>
> /opt/csw/bin/pkg-get -i subversion
>
> That will get you subversion 1.4.3,REV=2007.02.19
>
> then change your PATH to
>
>
> PATH=/opt/csw/sbin:/opt/csw/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/ccs/bin
>
> then see what happens
>
>
>
> Dennis Clarke
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
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From james at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 21 09:55:26 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 07:55:26 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070921.7552600.3444103117@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 20/09/07, 16:37:00, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding
Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> >>> http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml
> >>>
> >> 2009-03-31 looks like end of support to me.
> >>
> >> Phase 2 to us might mean keeping the archive on the mirrors but
> >> not updating, "access to existing".
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Solaris 8 End Of Service Life is 03/31/12
> >

> I would assert that Sun has more resources in the support space then
> Blastwave does and that aligning with the Sun support documents isn't
> the best thing to do.  Do we really want to maintain Solaris 8 packages
> for an other 4+ years?

2009-03-31 - today => 1 1/2 years

Sun supports the OS; we provide packages built on the OS.  We're doing
different jobs.  It's just a date that represents the last time anyone
will reasonably use S8.


I strongly believe we should set a date, one that gives people due
notice, announce it and stick to it.


> What about Solaris 9?

Good question, most of the augments put forward against S8 apply to S9,
(some even apply to S10, eg OpenSolaris libs).

Same rational?  Although personally I've skipped S9 completely so
after S8 is dropped I can start moaning. :-)





James.


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 21 17:18:15 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:18:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070921.7552600.3444103117@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>
	<20070921.7552600.3444103117@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On 20/09/07, 16:37:00, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding
> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>> >>> http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml
>> >>>
>> >> 2009-03-31 looks like end of support to me.
>> >>
>> >> Phase 2 to us might mean keeping the archive on the mirrors but
>> >> not updating, "access to existing".
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Solaris 8 End Of Service Life is 03/31/12
>> >
>
>> I would assert that Sun has more resources in the support space then
>> Blastwave does and that aligning with the Sun support documents isn't
>> the best thing to do.  Do we really want to maintain Solaris 8 packages
>> for an other 4+ years?

That has no bearing here at all.  If I choose to compile gzip on Solaris 8,
and I do just that, then I am happy to report that it builds and passes all
tests and I can even optimize it a bit. It can be released for any Solaris
revisoion from 8 upwards.

If some other package is murder to compile on Solaris 8, for whatever
reasons, then it makes sense to just move over to Solaris 10 Update 4 and
make a release for that Solaris only.  Maybe. Depends on the situation.

This has nothing to do at all with Sun's resources or the resources here at
Blastwave.

> 2009-03-31 - today => 1 1/2 years
>
> Sun supports the OS; we provide packages built on the OS.  We're doing
> different jobs.  It's just a date that represents the last time anyone
> will reasonably use S8.
>

  The word "reasonably" is a tough one to bring up here. There are a lot of
really really large corporations out there running Solaris 8 and they will
not move until they are pushed real hard. They have no reason to move. It
works just fine and is very stable and very secure.

  I would go so far, right out on a limb here based on my many years of
business experience that Sun will be supporting Solaris 8 for as long as
those customers dictate. Its a simple matter of money and some
corporations will write a check for $5M a year for support just to keep
there E4500 servers running for one more year.

  If anyone out there thinks I am completely wrong, and you have been in the
IT business over a decade ( at least ) then please speak up. To me .. its
just simple business. While the number of Solaris 8 users is slowly going
away there will *always* be Solaris 8 users.

> I strongly believe we should set a date, one that gives people due
> notice, announce it and stick to it.

  I agree.

  No more discussion or debate.

  We should pick that date that Sun has set for end of phase 1 support and
that looks to be 3/31/09

See http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml

>> What about Solaris 9?
>
> Good question, most of the augments put forward against S8 apply to S9,
> (some even apply to S10, eg OpenSolaris libs).
>
> Same rational?  Although personally I've skipped S9 completely so
> after S8 is dropped I can start moaning. :-)

So, let's tackle one mountain at a time here. What are your thoughts on end
of phase 1 support ?  31st March 2009 ?

Dennis


From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 17:28:18 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:28:18 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>
	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>	<46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>	<20070921.7552600.3444103117@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F3E312.9040206@yahoo.com>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
>
>> I strongly believe we should set a date, one that gives people due
>> notice, announce it and stick to it.
>>     
>
>   I agree.
>
>   No more discussion or debate.
>
>   We should pick that date that Sun has set for end of phase 1 support and
> that looks to be 3/31/09
>
> See http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml
>
>   
>>> What about Solaris 9?
>>>       
>> Good question, most of the augments put forward against S8 apply to S9,
>> (some even apply to S10, eg OpenSolaris libs).
>>
>> Same rational?  Although personally I've skipped S9 completely so
>> after S8 is dropped I can start moaning. :-)
>>     
>
> So, let's tackle one mountain at a time here. What are your thoughts on end
> of phase 1 support ?  31st March 2009 ?

As long as its consistent and well documented. Thats the larger issue to 
me. The date is minor though much more arguable.



From trygvis at inamo.no  Fri Sep 21 18:35:43 2007
From: trygvis at inamo.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Trygve_Laugst=F8l?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:35:43 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>
	<20070921.7552600.3444103117@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F3F2DF.2020309@inamo.no>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
>> On 20/09/07, 16:37:00, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding
>> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>>
>>>>>> http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml
>>>>>>
>>>>> 2009-03-31 looks like end of support to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phase 2 to us might mean keeping the archive on the mirrors but
>>>>> not updating, "access to existing".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Solaris 8 End Of Service Life is 03/31/12
>>>>
>>> I would assert that Sun has more resources in the support space then
>>> Blastwave does and that aligning with the Sun support documents isn't
>>> the best thing to do.  Do we really want to maintain Solaris 8 packages
>>> for an other 4+ years?
> 
> That has no bearing here at all.  If I choose to compile gzip on Solaris 8,
> and I do just that, then I am happy to report that it builds and passes all
> tests and I can even optimize it a bit. It can be released for any Solaris
> revisoion from 8 upwards.
> 
> If some other package is murder to compile on Solaris 8, for whatever
> reasons, then it makes sense to just move over to Solaris 10 Update 4 and
> make a release for that Solaris only.  Maybe. Depends on the situation.
> 
> This has nothing to do at all with Sun's resources or the resources here at
> Blastwave.
> 
>> 2009-03-31 - today => 1 1/2 years
>>
>> Sun supports the OS; we provide packages built on the OS.  We're doing
>> different jobs.  It's just a date that represents the last time anyone
>> will reasonably use S8.
>>
> 
>   The word "reasonably" is a tough one to bring up here. There are a lot of
> really really large corporations out there running Solaris 8 and they will
> not move until they are pushed real hard. They have no reason to move. It
> works just fine and is very stable and very secure.
> 
>   I would go so far, right out on a limb here based on my many years of
> business experience that Sun will be supporting Solaris 8 for as long as
> those customers dictate. Its a simple matter of money and some
> corporations will write a check for $5M a year for support just to keep
> there E4500 servers running for one more year.
> 
>   If anyone out there thinks I am completely wrong, and you have been in the
> IT business over a decade ( at least ) then please speak up. To me .. its
> just simple business. While the number of Solaris 8 users is slowly going
> away there will *always* be Solaris 8 users.
> 
>> I strongly believe we should set a date, one that gives people due
>> notice, announce it and stick to it.
> 
>   I agree.
> 
>   No more discussion or debate.
> 
>   We should pick that date that Sun has set for end of phase 1 support and
> that looks to be 3/31/09
> 
> See http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml
> 
>>> What about Solaris 9?
>> Good question, most of the augments put forward against S8 apply to S9,
>> (some even apply to S10, eg OpenSolaris libs).
>>
>> Same rational?  Although personally I've skipped S9 completely so
>> after S8 is dropped I can start moaning. :-)
> 
> So, let's tackle one mountain at a time here. What are your thoughts on end
> of phase 1 support ?  31st March 2009 ?

How about forking the existing Blastwave into a solaris 8 branch and a 
solaris 10 branch until 2009 and then leave the 8 branch for dead?

The purpose for the Solaris 8 would be to mainly fix bugs and upgrade 
existing packages. I'm pretty sure that most of the developers would 
move on to the Solaris 10 branch, but it seems that Solaris 8 still is 
hanging around, and then there should be enough maintainers to bugfix 
and upgrade a package now and then.

--
Trygve


From iand at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 21 19:30:33 2007
From: iand at blastwave.org (Ian Dickinson)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:30:33 +0100
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>
	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>	<46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>	<20070921.7552600.3444103117@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F3FFB9.3000202@blastwave.org>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
> So, let's tackle one mountain at a time here. What are your thoughts on end
> of phase 1 support ?  31st March 2009 ?

Works for me (and my employer - one of those "dinosaurs" that still has some
legacy Solaris 8 boxes - although migrating to Solaris 10 already).

If we get agreement on a date, we need it writing up unambiguously and publishing.

I for one am happy to continue maintaining packages until then, and migrating
to whatever new build specifications are arrived at for Solaris 10 and above
when the bell rings.

One further issue is:  What's the date for Solaris 9?

Ian


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 21 19:39:25 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:39:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F3FFB9.3000202@blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>
	<20070921.7552600.3444103117@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F3FFB9.3000202@blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <34447.72.39.216.186.1190396365.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Dennis Clarke wrote:
>> So, let's tackle one mountain at a time here. What are your thoughts on
>> end
>> of phase 1 support ?  31st March 2009 ?
>
> Works for me (and my employer - one of those "dinosaurs" that still has some
> legacy Solaris 8 boxes - although migrating to Solaris 10 already).
>
> If we get agreement on a date, we need it writing up unambiguously and
> publishing.

http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml

> I for one am happy to continue maintaining packages until then, and
> migrating
> to whatever new build specifications are arrived at for Solaris 10 and above
> when the bell rings.
>
> One further issue is:  What's the date for Solaris 9?

That link above says TBD so I guess we have no idea. There are rules of
thumb of course.

See :

Solaris Operating System Life Cycle
Sun's Life Cycle Model for the Solaris Operating System
http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/lifecycle.xml

Dennis


From binod3 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 21 20:15:45 2007
From: binod3 at gmail.com (Binod)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:15:45 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
In-Reply-To: <111cdbc80709202132s64f19528q3b2b1b15e89e4b4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
	<35924.72.39.216.186.1190345338.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<111cdbc80709202132s64f19528q3b2b1b15e89e4b4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <111cdbc80709211115t414c6ee1ld37ba97c22de0951@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I need help and any kind of help will be really appreciated.

1st question - Has anyone been able to get post-commit work hook made work
by using mailer.py ( I am interested in finding if how to configure python
bindings) from the subversion package added from  blastwave?

2nd question - Once I got the the package from the blastwave, ( I didn't do
it in regular way i.e pkg-get ---i joined blastwave community yesterday as I
just started to work on solaris), but rather I downloaded every dependencies
from the mirror sites that were shown for the subversion software in the
blastwave and after everything was downloaded I did pkgadd -d to each
dependencies one by one. So, everything seems to be working fine besides
those python bindings, ( I thought the pkg subversion provided in blastwave
was compiled  with python binded in it , am i wrong? )

After I configured everything properly, subversion just works fine but I get
the following error when I try to run .py files :

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
bash-3.00# svn import -m "Initial import" rad
svn://localhost:3690/HIWAY/branches/rad

Committed revision 2.

Warning: 'post-commit' hook failed with error output:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/export/home/subversion/repos/hooks/mailer.py", line 41, in ?
    import svn.fs
ImportError: No module named svn.fs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I know its a problem with python bindings, but I thought subversion package
had already binded and shouldnot have any problem.

I also tried these steps :

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
bash-3.00# echo $PATH
/opt/csw/sbin:/opt/csw/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/ccs/bin

bash-3.00# svn import -m "Initial import" johnny
svn://localhost:3690/HIWAY/branches/johnny

Committed revision 4.

Warning: 'post-commit' hook failed with error output:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/export/home/subversion/repos/hooks/mailer.py", line 41, in ?
    import svn.fs
ImportError: No module named svn.fs

bash-3.00# which svn
/opt/csw/bin/svn
bash-3.00#

bash-3.00#
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

When I do which python I get
bash-3.00# python
Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, May 16 2007, 19:39:00)
[GCC 3.4.6] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I know I am very close to the solution but just couldnot reach there, so
please any help will be really helpful.

Thanks in advance,
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From pjama at optusnet.com.au  Sat Sep 22 01:10:04 2007
From: pjama at optusnet.com.au (pjama)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:10:04 +1000
Subject: [csw-users] Solaris 10 8/07 and CSW. All mozilla prods dump core
In-Reply-To: <46F241FA.6070403@optusnet.com.au>
References: <46F241FA.6070403@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <46F44F4C.5020908@optusnet.com.au>

Never mind. After finding several blaswave gui apps not working I've completely uninstalled/reinstalled blastwave (I fully sympathise with Dennis) and so far things are working.

Curiously I went through and did a pkgchk on all blastwave pkgs, found 1 that looked a bit dodgey, reinstalled it but this didn't fix the problem.

Cheers
Peter

pjama wrote:
> Can someone give me a hand here?
> 
> I've done a fresh install of Solaris 10 U4 (8/07) and installed various blastwave packages using pkg-get (ie it gets all dependencies)
> 
> Firefox, thunderbird and mozilla all dump core when I try to run them. The solaris bundled firefox runs fine.
> 
> 
> I think this is the offending segment in a truss file but I'd appreciate any comments.
> 
> 5386/1:         close(26)                                       = 0
> 5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/75dpi//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
> 5386/1:         openat(-3041965, "/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/75dpi/", O_RDONLY|O_NDELAY|O_LARGEFILE) Err#2 ENOENT
> 5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/TT//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
> 5386/1:         openat(-3041965, "/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/TT/", O_RDONLY|O_NDELAY|O_LARGEFILE) Err#2 ENOENT
> 5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/75dpi//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) = 26
> 5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/75dpi/", 0xFFBF72A8) = 0
> 5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/75dpi//fonts.cache-csw-1", 0xFFBF7220) = 0
> 5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF71D8)                         = 0
> 5386/1:         brk(0x003E1DB8)                                 = 0
> 5386/1:         brk(0x003E3DB8)                                 = 0
> 5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF7080)                         = 0
> 5386/1:         ioctl(26, TCGETA, 0xFFBF7164)                   Err#25 ENOTTY
> 5386/1:         read(26, 0x003E0D34, 8192)                      = 0
> 5386/1:         llseek(26, 0, SEEK_CUR)                         = 0
> 5386/1:         close(26)                                       = 0
> 5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/TT//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) = 26
> 5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/TT/", 0xFFBF72A8) = 0
> 5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/TT//fonts.cache-csw-1", 0xFFBF7220) = 0
> 5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF71D8)                         = 0
> 5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF7080)                         = 0
> 5386/1:         ioctl(26, TCGETA, 0xFFBF7164)                   Err#25 ENOTTY
> 5386/1:         read(26, " " m i n g . t t f "   0".., 8192)    = 8192
> 5386/1:         read(26, "\0\0\0 ,12\0\015\0\0 g M".., 8192)    = 3648
> 5386/1:         brk(0x003E3DB8)                                 = 0
> 5386/1:         brk(0x003E5DB8)                                 = 0
> 5386/1:             Incurred fault #6, FLTBOUNDS  %pc = 0xFE3C30B4
> 5386/1:               siginfo: SIGSEGV SEGV_MAPERR addr=0x00000000
> 5386/1:             Received signal #11, SIGSEGV [caught]
> 5386/1:               siginfo: SIGSEGV SEGV_MAPERR addr=0x00000000
> 5386/1:         lwp_sigmask(SIG_SETMASK, 0xFFBFFEFF, 0x0000FFF7) = 0xFFBFFEFF [0x0000FFFF]
> 5386/1:         unlink("/home/peter/.mozilla/firefox/r5k5f13q.default/lock") = 0
> 5386/1:         sigaction(SIGSEGV, 0xFFBF4B80, 0x00000000)      = 0
> 5386/1:         lwp_sigmask(SIG_SETMASK, 0xFFBFFAFF, 0x0000FFF7) = 0xFFBFFEFF [0x0000FFFF]
> 5386/1:         lwp_kill(1, SIGSEGV)                            = 0
> 5386/1:             Received signal #11, SIGSEGV [default]
> 5386/1:               siginfo: SIGSEGV pid=5386 uid=1021 code=-1
> 5390:   pollsys(0x00061710, 5, 0xFFBFEB48, 0x00000000) (sleeping...)
> 5374:   waitid(P_PID, 5386, 0xFFBFE890, WEXITED|WTRAPPED|WNOWAIT) = 0
> 5374:   ioctl(0, TIOCGPGRP, 0xFFBFE8AC)                 = 0
> 5374:   ioctl(0, TCGETS, 0x00039178)                    = 0
> 5374:   waitid(P_PID, 5386, 0xFFBFE890, WEXITED|WTRAPPED) = 0
> 5374:   write(2, " S e g m e n t a t i o n".., 33)      = 33
> 5374:   brk(0x0003F490)                                 = 0
> 5374:   brk(0x0003F290)                                 = 0
> 5374:   _exit(139) 
> 

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From dclarke at blastwave.org  Sat Sep 22 01:19:03 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:19:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Solaris 10 8/07 and CSW. All mozilla prods dump core
In-Reply-To: <46F44F4C.5020908@optusnet.com.au>
References: <46F241FA.6070403@optusnet.com.au>
	<46F44F4C.5020908@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <43233.72.39.216.186.1190416743.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Never mind. After finding several blaswave gui apps not working I've
> completely uninstalled/reinstalled blastwave (I fully sympathise with
> Dennis) and so far things are working.

  Thank you ... I think that James and I sometimes go blind running package
adds and removals on bare bone Solaris 8 systems.  It does take hours to
do.

> Curiously I went through and did a pkgchk on all blastwave pkgs, found 1
> that looked a bit dodgey, reinstalled it but this didn't fix the problem.

So we still have mystery core dumps happening ?

Dennis Clarke



From maybird1776 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 15:31:02 2007
From: maybird1776 at yahoo.com (ken mays)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 06:31:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F3E312.9040206@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <29494.7696.qm@web34205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

>   
>>> What about Solaris 9?
>>>       
>> Good question, most of the augments put forward
against S8 apply to
 S9,
>> (some even apply to S10, eg OpenSolaris libs).
>>
>> Same rational?  Although personally I've skipped S9
completely so
>> after S8 is dropped I can start moaning. :-)

Geez, we still on this subject? (smile)

I think Sun only support OS releases as far back as
Solaris 7 now. They ended some of their support of the
older OS releases around Mar 2007. Check on that.

I think Solaris 8 is next on the list, but Solaris 7
will end before that (I expect Y2008 will be the end
of Solaris 7 support). Sun mention it supports up to
three OS releases so I expect Solaris 8 support until
"Solaris 11" is officially released.

Why are companies sticking with Solaris 8? Cost and
support. Also, no need to reinvent the wheel and
limited resources to test new deployments. The rules
of "old reliable car" versus "new shiny car" applies
here (or old spouse versus new spouse).

We could ask Sun the question of why they still are
officially supporting Solaris 7?!?

Let us not get caught up on this as it is good the
Blastwave ISV supports Solaris 8 cause they feel like
it. Again, the point I made earlier was that we talked
about it becoming legacy support (not "unsupported"). 

Sun has moved a few of their products to Solaris 9/10
only. Good business sense for ISVs is to move to
Solaris 10 as the primary support model and Solaris
8/9 as legacy support. But, that is a personal
business choice for each ISV business - even the
Blastwave ISV.

Hey, if supporting Solaris 8 onwards is putting 'food
on the table' for an ISV or Solaris professionals
around the world, then why rock the money tree? 

~K





       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 


From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 22:21:56 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:21:56 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Headsup: gaim to pidgin transition
Message-ID: <46F57964.4070102@yahoo.com>

In the near future I'll be pushing out blastwave packages that contain 
pidgin and pidgin-otr.

http://www.pidgin.im/
http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/

No flames about them being late please. We were blocked on some bugs and 
I have a day job. :-)

These are replacements for the gaim and gaim-otr packages. Due to legal 
reasons the program names and the CSW package instance names must change 
and there is no easy way to make an automatic transition.

    * The CSWpidgin and CSWpidginotr packages will not install if the
      CSWgaim and CSWgaimotr packages are on the system.
    * The CSWgaim and CSWgaimotr packages must be manually removed from
      the system before CSWpidgin and CSWpidginotr can be installed.
    * When run for the first time pidgin will migrate a users gaim files
      to a new file hierarchy. This should be seamless to the user
      though, if anything does go wrong, copies of the relevant files
      are left in the users home directory.
    * At some point users may wish to remove the older gaim files. This
      is not done automatically but could save considerable space if
      users log IM conversations.
    * OTR users will have to generate new keys *or* edit the otr key
      file to point to the new pidgin protocol names. This is not done
      automatically as of the last version I tested.
    * Once CSWpidgin and CSWpidginotr are pushed to unstable I'll ask
      for the CSWgaim and CSWgaimotr packages to be removed from the
      catalog.

I hope to have the new packages ready in the next couple of days. I'll 
send an other announcement when they are available in unstable. If 
anyone has questions or comments please let me know.


From pjama at optusnet.com.au  Sat Sep 22 23:18:28 2007
From: pjama at optusnet.com.au (pjama)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 07:18:28 +1000
Subject: [csw-users] Solaris 10 8/07 and CSW. All mozilla prods dump core
In-Reply-To: <43233.72.39.216.186.1190416743.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <46F241FA.6070403@optusnet.com.au>	<46F44F4C.5020908@optusnet.com.au>
	<43233.72.39.216.186.1190416743.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F586A4.30809@optusnet.com.au>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
<snip>
>
>> Curiously I went through and did a pkgchk on all blastwave pkgs, found 1
>> that looked a bit dodgey, reinstalled it but this didn't fix the problem.
>
> So we still have mystery core dumps happening ?

No, no more problems. The full pkg reinstall fixed it. I was just outlining the above as one of the measures I took to initially solve the problem.

>
> Dennis Clarke
>

Cheers
Peter


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From brandorr at opensolaris.org  Sun Sep 23 04:18:47 2007
From: brandorr at opensolaris.org (Brandorr)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 22:18:47 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <29494.7696.qm@web34205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <46F3E312.9040206@yahoo.com>
	<29494.7696.qm@web34205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5b5090780709221918o567ea05wfcebd10f7ecd2bcd@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/22/07, ken mays <maybird1776 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> What about Solaris 9?
> >>>
> >> Good question, most of the augments put forward
> against S8 apply to
>  S9,
> >> (some even apply to S10, eg OpenSolaris libs).
> >>
> >> Same rational?  Although personally I've skipped S9
> completely so
> >> after S8 is dropped I can start moaning. :-)
>
> Geez, we still on this subject? (smile)
>
> I think Sun only support OS releases as far back as
> Solaris 7 now. They ended some of their support of the
> older OS releases around Mar 2007. Check on that.
>
> I think Solaris 8 is next on the list, but Solaris 7
> will end before that (I expect Y2008 will be the end
> of Solaris 7 support). Sun mention it supports up to
> three OS releases so I expect Solaris 8 support until
> "Solaris 11" is officially released.
>
> Why are companies sticking with Solaris 8? Cost and
> support. Also, no need to reinvent the wheel and
> limited resources to test new deployments. The rules
> of "old reliable car" versus "new shiny car" applies
> here (or old spouse versus new spouse).
>
> We could ask Sun the question of why they still are
> officially supporting Solaris 7?!?
>
> Let us not get caught up on this as it is good the
> Blastwave ISV supports Solaris 8 cause they feel like
> it. Again, the point I made earlier was that we talked
> about it becoming legacy support (not "unsupported").
>
> Sun has moved a few of their products to Solaris 9/10
> only. Good business sense for ISVs is to move to
> Solaris 10 as the primary support model and Solaris
> 8/9 as legacy support. But, that is a personal
> business choice for each ISV business - even the
> Blastwave ISV.
>
> Hey, if supporting Solaris 8 onwards is putting 'food
> on the table' for an ISV or Solaris professionals
> around the world, then why rock the money tree?

Solaris 8 is so entrenched in the field that Sun has developed a
Branded zone called Etude, that provided a virtual Solaris 8
environment on Solaris 10 systems, to encourage Solaris 8 users to
migrate to Solaris 10.

Speaking of Etude, might this mean that their will be demand for the
Solaris 8 Blastwave tree for longer than initially suspected?

-Brian
>
> ~K
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>


-- 
- Brian Gupta

http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nycosug/


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Sun Sep 23 05:22:25 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 23:22:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780709221918o567ea05wfcebd10f7ecd2bcd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46F3E312.9040206@yahoo.com>
	<29494.7696.qm@web34205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<5b5090780709221918o567ea05wfcebd10f7ecd2bcd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65303.72.39.216.186.1190517745.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>

>>
>> Geez, we still on this subject? (smile)

  It is a good one.

>> I think Sun only support OS releases as far back as
>> Solaris 7 now. They ended some of their support of the
>> older OS releases around Mar 2007. Check on that.

http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml

Solaris releases covered under Solaris Retirement Support, Phase 2

Release   LS Date*  Phase 1 End Date  Phase 2 End Date
Solaris 7 08/15/03  08/15/05          08/15/08

>> I think Solaris 8 is next on the list, but Solaris 7
>> will end before that (I expect Y2008 will be the end
>> of Solaris 7 support). Sun mention it supports up to
>> three OS releases so I expect Solaris 8 support until
>> "Solaris 11" is officially released.

   At this point I have to wonder about that.

   The customer runs the show.

>> Why are companies sticking with Solaris 8? Cost and
>> support. Also, no need to reinvent the wheel and
>> limited resources to test new deployments. The rules
>> of "old reliable car" versus "new shiny car" applies
>> here (or old spouse versus new spouse).

   It works.  Show me a compelling reason to upgrade.
   Really .. bring out a hum dinger of a reason.

   Zones ?   Yep .. that rocks.  Good enough for me.

>> We could ask Sun the question of why they still are
>> officially supporting Solaris 7?!?

   The customer runs the show.

>> Let us not get caught up on this as it is good the
>> Blastwave ISV supports Solaris 8 cause they feel like
>> it. Again, the point I made earlier was that we talked
>> about it becoming legacy support (not "unsupported").

Release     LS Date*    Phase 1 End Date  Phase 2 End Date
Solaris 8   02/16/07    3/31/09           03/31/12

>> Sun has moved a few of their products to Solaris 9/10
>> only. Good business sense for ISVs is to move to
>> Solaris 10 as the primary support model and Solaris
>> 8/9 as legacy support. But, that is a personal
>> business choice for each ISV business - even the
>> Blastwave ISV.

   Not so.

   This is where Solaris users build applications
   for both themselves and other Solaris users.

>> Hey, if supporting Solaris 8 onwards is putting 'food
>> on the table' for an ISV or Solaris professionals
>> around the world, then why rock the money tree?
>
> Solaris 8 is so entrenched in the field that Sun has developed a
> Branded zone called Etude, that provided a virtual Solaris 8
> environment on Solaris 10 systems, to encourage Solaris 8 users to
> migrate to Solaris 10.

  Yes, I read and talk with Marc Hamilton fairly often.

  I'm up to speed.

> Speaking of Etude, might this mean that their will be demand for the
> Solaris 8 Blastwave tree for longer than initially suspected?

Look here from earlier in this thread :

    > If we get agreement on a date, we need it writing up
    > unambiguously and publishing.

http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml

> I for one am happy to continue maintaining packages until then, and
> migrating
> to whatever new build specifications are arrived at for Solaris 10 and above
> when the bell rings.

That link above says TBD so I guess we have no idea. There are rules of
thumb of course.

See :

Solaris Operating System Life Cycle
Sun's Life Cycle Model for the Solaris Operating System
http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/lifecycle.xml


   The date -- >   3 / 31 / 09

   It is five quarters away.

Any issues with this ?

Dennis


From binod3 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 24 19:01:02 2007
From: binod3 at gmail.com (Binod)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:01:02 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
In-Reply-To: <111cdbc80709211115t414c6ee1ld37ba97c22de0951@mail.gmail.com>
References: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
	<35924.72.39.216.186.1190345338.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<111cdbc80709202132s64f19528q3b2b1b15e89e4b4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<111cdbc80709211115t414c6ee1ld37ba97c22de0951@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <111cdbc80709241001k31291bb3l3ee82fca6656a08c@mail.gmail.com>

Here is what i did to get going.

http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/pysvn
http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/subversion
http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/python

Downloaded dependencies required for subversion, subversion itself and then
got the pysvn and python from this website and then  made sure that  when I
run .py files it takes the python that got installed from this
website, i.ebasically set the PYTHONPATH.

Then all set.

This website provides compiled binaries for solaris .

Cheers !

On 9/21/07, Binod <binod3 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I need help and any kind of help will be really appreciated.
>
> 1st question - Has anyone been able to get post-commit work hook made work
> by using mailer.py ( I am interested in finding if how to configure python
> bindings) from the subversion package added from  blastwave?
>
> 2nd question - Once I got the the package from the blastwave, ( I didn't
> do it in regular way i.e pkg-get ---i joined blastwave community yesterday
> as I just started to work on solaris), but rather I downloaded every
> dependencies from the mirror sites that were shown for the subversion
> software in the blastwave and after everything was downloaded I did pkgadd
> -d to each dependencies one by one. So, everything seems to be working fine
> besides those python bindings, ( I thought the pkg subversion provided in
> blastwave was compiled  with python binded in it , am i wrong? )
>
> After I configured everything properly, subversion just works fine but I
> get the following error when I try to run .py files :
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> bash-3.00# svn import -m "Initial import" rad
> svn://localhost:3690/HIWAY/branches/rad
>
> Committed revision 2.
>
> Warning: 'post-commit' hook failed with error output:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/export/home/subversion/repos/hooks/mailer.py", line 41, in ?
>     import svn.fs
> ImportError: No module named svn.fs
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I know its a problem with python bindings, but I thought subversion
> package had already binded and shouldnot have any problem.
>
> I also tried these steps :
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> bash-3.00# echo $PATH
>
> /opt/csw/sbin:/opt/csw/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/ccs/bin
>
> bash-3.00# svn import -m "Initial import" johnny
> svn://localhost:3690/HIWAY/branches/johnny
>
> Committed revision 4.
>
> Warning: 'post-commit' hook failed with error output:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/export/home/subversion/repos/hooks/mailer.py", line 41, in ?
>     import svn.fs
> ImportError: No module named svn.fs
>
> bash-3.00# which svn
> /opt/csw/bin/svn
> bash-3.00#
>
> bash-3.00#
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> When I do which python I get
> bash-3.00# python
> Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, May 16 2007, 19:39:00)
> [GCC 3.4.6] on sunos5
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I know I am very close to the solution but just couldnot reach there, so
> please any help will be really helpful.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
>
>
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From gw at citasystems.com  Mon Sep 24 19:22:06 2007
From: gw at citasystems.com (George Wyche)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:22:06 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
In-Reply-To: <111cdbc80709241001k31291bb3l3ee82fca6656a08c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>	<35924.72.39.216.186.1190345338.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>	<111cdbc80709202132s64f19528q3b2b1b15e89e4b4c@mail.gmail.com>	<111cdbc80709211115t414c6ee1ld37ba97c22de0951@mail.gmail.com>
	<111cdbc80709241001k31291bb3l3ee82fca6656a08c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46F7F23E.2080800@citasystems.com>

@Binod
Please explain how your thought processes went to solve your problem.

#/opt/csw/bin/pkg-get -i pysvn

was the answer, but something kept you from seeing that. Can you say 
what it was?

George Wyche

Binod wrote:
> Here is what i did to get going.
> 
> http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/pysvn
> http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/subversion
> http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/python 
> <http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/python>
> 
> Downloaded dependencies required for subversion, subversion itself and 
> then got the pysvn and python from this website and then  made sure 
> that  when I run .py files it takes the python that got installed from 
> this website, i.e basically set the PYTHONPATH.
> 
> Then all set.
> 
> This website provides compiled binaries for solaris .
> 
> Cheers !


From binod3 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 24 21:23:37 2007
From: binod3 at gmail.com (Binod)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:23:37 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
In-Reply-To: <46F7F23E.2080800@citasystems.com>
References: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
	<35924.72.39.216.186.1190345338.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<111cdbc80709202132s64f19528q3b2b1b15e89e4b4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<111cdbc80709211115t414c6ee1ld37ba97c22de0951@mail.gmail.com>
	<111cdbc80709241001k31291bb3l3ee82fca6656a08c@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F7F23E.2080800@citasystems.com>
Message-ID: <111cdbc80709241223x4a48d8f9l4badd4d2a3f61720@mail.gmail.com>

To be honest, I don't know why I didn't see that and became so frustrated
for 2 days.

Its nothing but one of those moments.

Thanks,

On 9/24/07, George Wyche <gw at citasystems.com> wrote:
>
> @Binod
> Please explain how your thought processes went to solve your problem.
>
> #/opt/csw/bin/pkg-get -i pysvn
>
> was the answer, but something kept you from seeing that. Can you say
> what it was?
>
> George Wyche
>
> Binod wrote:
> > Here is what i did to get going.
> >
> > http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/pysvn
> > http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/subversion
> > http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/python
> > <http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/python>
> >
> > Downloaded dependencies required for subversion, subversion itself and
> > then got the pysvn and python from this website and then  made sure
> > that  when I run .py files it takes the python that got installed from
> > this website, i.e basically set the PYTHONPATH.
> >
> > Then all set.
> >
> > This website provides compiled binaries for solaris .
> >
> > Cheers !
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
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From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 25 20:39:01 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:39:01 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Headsup (REVISED): gaim to pidgin transition
Message-ID: <46F955C5.6050406@yahoo.com>

Note a big change here. As I was just informed pkg-get does the right 
thing with the incompat flag so this can be mostly auto-magic. No manual 
removal of the gaim packages is required.

In the near future I'll be pushing out blastwave packages that contain
pidgin and pidgin-otr.

http://www.pidgin.im/
http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/

No flames about them being late please. We were blocked on some bugs and
I have a day job. :-)

These are replacements for the gaim and gaim-otr packages. Due to legal
reasons the program names and the CSW package instance names must change.


    * When run for the first time pidgin will migrate a users gaim files
      to a new file hierarchy. This should be seamless to the user
      though, if anything does go wrong, copies of the relevant files
      are left in the users home directory.
    * At some point users may wish to remove the older gaim files. This
      is not done automatically but could save considerable space if
      users log IM conversations.
    * OTR users will have to generate new keys *or* edit the otr key
      file to point to the new pidgin protocol names. This is not done
      automatically as of the last version I tested.
    * Once CSWpidgin and CSWpidginotr are pushed to unstable I'll ask
      for the CSWgaim and CSWgaimotr packages to be removed from the
      catalog.

I hope to have the new packages ready in the next couple of days. I'll
send an other announcement when they are available in unstable. If
anyone has questions or comments please let me know.



From listen at alexander.skwar.name  Wed Sep 26 12:58:36 2007
From: listen at alexander.skwar.name (Alexander Skwar)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:58:36 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Messages reg. CSW packages during zone install
Message-ID: <1894013.Gi5sUeIsHa@kn.gn.rtr.message-center.info>

Hello.

In the global zone of a S10 U4 system, I installed some CSW packages.
Now I'm trying to setup my first non-global zone on that system. After
"zoneadm -z $zone install" finished, I found a lot of messages like
the following:

*** package <CSWvimrt> was not installed:                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                            
The package <CSWvimrt> is either not fully installed in the                                                                                 
global zone, or the package contains a request script. Only packages                                                                        
that are fully installed in the global zone and that do not contain a                                                                       
request script can be installed when a new zone is created. If this                                                                         
package does not contain a request script, you can correct this                                                                             
problem by removing and reinstalling the package in the global zone.                                                                        

It seems I've got this message for every CSW package.

What does this mean? The packages are fully installed.

Alexander Skwar



From binod3 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 16:21:17 2007
From: binod3 at gmail.com (Binod)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:21:17 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] about the path name
Message-ID: <111cdbc80709260721v2ec5dd33q1b0e5b2d1a52ef07@mail.gmail.com>

Hi I installed subversion from blastwave couple days ago and every thing is
working fine. Its in sparc 10 x64.

My path currently is

-bash-3.00$ echo $PATH
/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/ccs/bin:/usr/sfw/bin:/opt/csw/bin

but when I type svn I can't get it work.

-bash-3.00$ svn
-bash: svn: command not found

But when I go to

cd /opt/csw/bin and then do ./svn It works fine.

I went ahead and added that /opt/csw/bin (which is a global path to my local
user .profile file then svn commands just work fine)

What is going wrong here ? Can anyone help me out?

I think if /opt/csw/bin is in global path it should be able to run from
anywhere without needing to provide detail in local.profile file , isn't
thats how it works?

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks,





 I kept /opt/csw/bin in my PATH variable in .profile file it works fine.
Should I put anything else in path to make it work.
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From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 26 16:30:44 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:30:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] about the path name
In-Reply-To: <111cdbc80709260721v2ec5dd33q1b0e5b2d1a52ef07@mail.gmail.com>
References: <111cdbc80709260721v2ec5dd33q1b0e5b2d1a52ef07@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49160.72.39.216.186.1190817044.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Hi I installed subversion from blastwave couple days ago and every thing is
> working fine. Its in sparc 10 x64.
>
> My path currently is
>
> -bash-3.00$ echo $PATH
> /usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/ccs/bin:/usr/sfw/bin:/opt/csw/bin
>

why the /usr/local/bin stuff in there ?  Did you compile a bunch of apps and
put them in there?  Was svn one of them ?

Instead of askign wild questions ... what do you get from the following
command :

$ grep -v "^#" /etc/default/login | grep -v "^$"
CONSOLE=/dev/console
PASSREQ=YES
ALTSHELL=YES
PATH=/opt/SUNWspro/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/ccs/bin
SUPATH=/opt/SUNWspro/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/ccs/bin
UMASK=027
SYSLOG=YES
SLEEPTIME=5
DISABLETIME=60
RETRIES=3
SYSLOG_FAILED_LOGINS=0


Dennis



From gwyche at io.com  Wed Sep 26 17:10:27 2007
From: gwyche at io.com (George Wyche)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:10:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [csw-users] about the path name
In-Reply-To: <111cdbc80709260721v2ec5dd33q1b0e5b2d1a52ef07@mail.gmail.com>
References: <111cdbc80709260721v2ec5dd33q1b0e5b2d1a52ef07@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <32858.66.90.167.124.1190819427.squirrel@webmail.io.com>

@Binod

svn may be an alias. Do a
  which svn

cd /opt/csw/bin
./svn

would override any svn alias.

> Hi I installed subversion from blastwave couple days ago
> and every thing is working fine. Its in sparc 10 x64.
>
> My path currently is
>
> -bash-3.00$ echo $PATH
> /usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:\
> /usr/local/bin:/usr/ccs/bin:/usr/sfw/bin:/opt/csw/bin
>

If you are intending on using blastwave software, then please move
/opt/csw/bin to occur before /usr/sfw/bin

And you will probably have to examine /usr/local/bin closely for links
which might otherwise override your specified order. For example even if
you have /opt/csw/bin:/usr/sfw/bin, but a link in /usr/local/bin *could*
have an gnutar which points to a gnutar in /usr/sfw/bin NOT in
/opt/csw/bin. That would be an override. That sort of think has given me
grief in the past.

> but when I type svn I can't get it work.
>
> -bash-3.00$ svn
> -bash: svn: command not found
>
> But when I go to
>
> cd /opt/csw/bin and then do ./svn It works fine.
>
> I went ahead and added that /opt/csw/bin (which is a
> global path to my local user .profile file then svn
> commands just work fine)
>
> What is going wrong here ? Can anyone help me out?
>
> I think if /opt/csw/bin is in global path it should
> be able to run from anywhere without needing to
> provide detail in local.profile file , isn't
> thats how it works?

That is my understanding. You could look at the permissions, owners,
groups, links associated with each step of the way to /opt/csw/bin/svn.
ls -l /
ls -l /opt
ls -l /opt/csw
ls -l /opt/csw/bin
ls -l /opt/csw/bin/svn

Look for "strange" things.

Is there something else in
>
> Any help will be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,


George



From stefan.tomlik at tomlik.de  Wed Sep 26 18:19:21 2007
From: stefan.tomlik at tomlik.de (Stefan Tomlik)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:19:21 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] unixodbc available as 64bit package?
Message-ID: <46FA8689.6010703@tomlik.de>

Hi all,

I know this has been discussed several times ago but - as usual - 
managed to run into this issue too:

<snip>
-bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/isql -v OracleTestServer
[01000][unixODBC][Driver Manager]Can't open lib 
'/opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1' : ld.so.1: isql: 
fatal: /opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1: wrong ELF class: 
ELFCLASS64
[ISQL]ERROR: Could not SQLConnect
-bash-3.00$ file /opt/csw/bin/isql                   
/opt/csw/bin/isql:      ELF 32-bit MSB executable SPARC Version 1, 
dynamically linked, stripped
-bash-3.00$ file /opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1
/opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1:        ELF 64-bit MSB 
dynamic lib SPARCV9 Version 1, dynamically linked, not stripped
</snip>

The problem is solved for now by installing the sparc 32bit instant 
client from oracle. I consider this to be a workaround, the affected 
system is used to transfer several gigabytes a day between productive 
databases and dwh systems. Would it cause a lot of work to build this 
and other packages in a way that it contains 32bit and 64bit binaries?

-- 
"I can give it to you cheap, quick, and good. Now pick two out of the three"

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From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 26 19:28:08 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:28:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] unixodbc available as 64bit package?
In-Reply-To: <46FA8689.6010703@tomlik.de>
References: <46FA8689.6010703@tomlik.de>
Message-ID: <48496.72.39.216.186.1190827688.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Hi all,
>
> I know this has been discussed several times ago but - as usual -
> managed to run into this issue too:
>
> <snip>
> -bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/isql -v OracleTestServer
> [01000][unixODBC][Driver Manager]Can't open lib
> '/opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1' : ld.so.1: isql:
> fatal: /opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1: wrong ELF class:
> ELFCLASS64
> [ISQL]ERROR: Could not SQLConnect
> -bash-3.00$ file /opt/csw/bin/isql
> /opt/csw/bin/isql:      ELF 32-bit MSB executable SPARC Version 1,
> dynamically linked, stripped
> -bash-3.00$ file /opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1
> /opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1:        ELF 64-bit MSB
> dynamic lib SPARCV9 Version 1, dynamically linked, not stripped
> </snip>
>
> The problem is solved for now by installing the sparc 32bit instant
> client from oracle. I consider this to be a workaround, the affected
> system is used to transfer several gigabytes a day between productive
> databases and dwh systems. Would it cause a lot of work to build this
> and other packages in a way that it contains 32bit and 64bit binaries?

  If you file a bug report against this package then it will be looked at
during bug review. What you are asking for seems entirely reasonable and
in fact, needed.

Dennis



From stefan.tomlik at tomlik.de  Thu Sep 27 14:18:54 2007
From: stefan.tomlik at tomlik.de (Stefan Tomlik)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:18:54 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] unixodbc available as 64bit package?
In-Reply-To: <48496.72.39.216.186.1190827688.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <46FA8689.6010703@tomlik.de>
	<48496.72.39.216.186.1190827688.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46FB9FAE.7010000@tomlik.de>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
>   If you file a bug report against this package then it will be looked at
> during bug review. What you are asking for seems entirely reasonable and
> in fact, needed.
>   
Okay, done: http://www.blastwave.org/mantis/view_bug_page.php?f_id=0002602

There is another issue with this package, but I'm not sure if it is a 
bug in unixodbc. I would like to keep the libraries and binaries from 
oracle instantclient in a separate directory (in my case 
/opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/) and it looks like I'm forced to use 
LD_LIBRARY_PATH, apart from various other brainf***ed environment 
variables required by the odbc driver:

<snip>
-bash-3.00$ unset LD_LIBRARY_PATH
-bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/isql -v OracleTestServer
[01000][unixODBC][Driver Manager]Can't open lib 
'/opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1' : ld.so.1: isql: 
fatal: libclntsh.so.10.1: open failed: No such file or directory
[ISQL]ERROR: Could not SQLConnect
-bash-3.00$ export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/
-bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/isql -v OracleTestServer
[01000][unixODBC][Driver Manager]Can't open lib 
'/opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1' : ld.so.1: isql: 
fatal: libodbcinst.so.1: open failed: No such file or directory
[ISQL]ERROR: Could not SQLConnect
-bash-3.00$ export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:/opt/csw/lib
-bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/isql TESTDB scott tiger -v
+---------------------------------------+
| Connected!                            |
|                                       |
| sql-statement                         |
| help [tablename]                      |
| quit                                  |
|                                       |
+---------------------------------------+
</snip>

Is it an expected behaviour that isql isn't able to find it's libraries 
when you set LD_LIBRARY_PATH? Is there any other way I can do that to 
get the stuff running?

-- 
"I can give it to you cheap, quick, and good. Now pick two out of the three"



From brandorr at opensolaris.org  Sat Sep  1 21:23:24 2007
From: brandorr at opensolaris.org (Brandorr)
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 15:23:24 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] I ran into an error while upgrading 'all' (CSWapache
	partially failed)
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780709011218p2bdf0dd4q58499b8a480ca5f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b5090780709011218p2bdf0dd4q58499b8a480ca5f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5b5090780709011223o3b3e477am5403654af865bcc8@mail.gmail.com>

/opt/csw/apache/securedocs/index.html.CSW
[ verifying class <none> ]
## Executing postinstall script.
/var/sadm/pkg/CSWapache/install/postinstall: syntax error at line 46:
`;;' unexpected
pkgadd: ERROR: postinstall script did not complete successfully

Installation of <CSWapache> partially failed.
ERROR: could not add CSWapache.

--
- Brian Gupta

http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nycosug/


-- 
- Brian Gupta

http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nycosug/


From mats.larsson at ericsson.com  Mon Sep  3 12:02:12 2007
From: mats.larsson at ericsson.com (Mats Larsson)
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 12:02:12 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] I ran into an error while upgrading 'all'
 (CSWapache partially failed)
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780709011223o3b3e477am5403654af865bcc8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b5090780709011218p2bdf0dd4q58499b8a480ca5f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<5b5090780709011223o3b3e477am5403654af865bcc8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46DBDBA4.5040802@ericsson.com>

On 2007-09-01 21:23, Brandorr wrote:
> /opt/csw/apache/securedocs/index.html.CSW
> [ verifying class <none> ]
> ## Executing postinstall script.
> /var/sadm/pkg/CSWapache/install/postinstall: syntax error at line 46:
> `;;' unexpected
> pkgadd: ERROR: postinstall script did not complete successfully
>
> Installation of <CSWapache> partially failed.
> ERROR: could not add CSWapache.

Same problem here :(


From ghenry at cmi.univ-mrs.fr  Thu Sep  6 14:33:11 2007
From: ghenry at cmi.univ-mrs.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=E9rard_Henry?=)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 14:33:11 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Firefox 2.0.0.5: trouble with run-mozilla.sh?
Message-ID: <46DFF387.1020805@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>

hello all,
i'm using firefox and saw this error in a terminal:
run-mozilla.sh: Cannot execute /opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/lib/mozilla-bin.

run-mozilla.sh is in /opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/lib, and there is no 
mozilla-bin in CSWfirefox, but /opt/csw/lib/mozilla/mozilla-bin in 
CSWmozilla

Is it normal?

gerard


From william at wbonnet.net  Thu Sep  6 23:30:35 2007
From: william at wbonnet.net (William Bonnet)
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:30:35 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Firefox 2.0.0.5: trouble with run-mozilla.sh?
In-Reply-To: <46DFF387.1020805@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>
References: <46DFF387.1020805@cmi.univ-mrs.fr>
Message-ID: <46E0717B.5080705@wbonnet.net>

Hi G?rard
> i'm using firefox and saw this error in a terminal:
> run-mozilla.sh: Cannot execute /opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/lib/mozilla-bin.
>   
That should not happen... can you reproduce this systematically  ?
> run-mozilla.sh is in /opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/lib, and there is no 
> mozilla-bin in CSWfirefox, but /opt/csw/lib/mozilla/mozilla-bin in 
> CSWmozilla
>
> Is it normal?
>   
Yes it is, the binary run by the script is firefox-bin. It seems it has 
been found for some reason. Can you please check that you run either
/opt/csw/bin/firefox or  /opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/bin/firefox (the first 
one is a symlink to the second).

Could you please send me (in private or not) the output of the following 
command :

bash -x /opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/bin/firefox

You should see the following line at the end of the execution :

+ /opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/lib/run-mozilla.sh 
/opt/csw/mozilla/firefox/lib/firefox-bin

Cheers

-- 
William                  http://www.wbonnet.net

http://www.sunwizard.net Le site fran?ais des amateurs de stations Unix
http://www.blastwave.org An OpenSolaris Community Site
http://www.guses.org     French speaking Solaris User Group




From magrawal at coba.usf.edu  Fri Sep  7 17:47:19 2007
From: magrawal at coba.usf.edu (Manish Agrawal)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 11:47:19 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] apache2 and php5 error
In-Reply-To: <f05666f00707200421r41c2ba07of6df0c9de8f03578@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f05666f00707200421r41c2ba07of6df0c9de8f03578@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <op.tyajg5sgz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>

You also need the php5 package.

Manish

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 07:21:43 -0400, Roberto Pereyra <pereyra.roberto at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello
>
> I just installed apache2 and ap2_modphp5 in my Solaris 10 server.
> Apache works fine but php not works, if I open a php page, it are blank.
>
> There are a bug in ap2_modphp5 package ?
>
> I have the default blastwave apache2-modphp5 config.
>
> roberto
>
>



-- 
Manish Agrawal
Asstt. Prof., Dept. of ISDS, Univ. of South Florida
4202 E. Fowler Ave., CIS 1040, Tampa, Fl 33620 - 7800, U.S.A.
(813)-974-6716 (W) 974-6749 (FAX) magrawal at coba.usf.edu
http://coba.usf.edu/departments/isds/faculty/agrawal/index.html
--


From magrawal at coba.usf.edu  Fri Sep  7 17:55:51 2007
From: magrawal at coba.usf.edu (Manish Agrawal)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 11:55:51 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Apache/php issue
In-Reply-To: <C2D4E66D.21E7%jwakeman@coe.drexel.edu>
References: <C2D4E66D.21E7%jwakeman@coe.drexel.edu>
Message-ID: <op.tyajvdn6z3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>

You also need the ap2_modphp5 package - I think it will do the integration of php into apache

Manish


On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:15:25 -0400, Jeremy Wakeman <jwakeman at coe.drexel.edu> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've got apache 2.2.4 and php 5.2.1 installed on my sun server (5.10).  I
> can't seem to get php scripts to work correctly on the server.  I've tried a
> few different settings in the httpd.conf file (since several howto/help
> sites have conflicting info), but I believe I now have it configured
> correctly.
>
> The script I'm using to test php is here:
> http://webmail.ece.drexel.edu/test.php  It just runs phpinfo(), but even
> that simple script isn't working.
>
> I'll stick a bunch of my httpd checks and excerpts from the config file.
>
> BTW, one of the websites I found mentioned that php files should have
> content-type headers of text/plain.  Is that correct (that's what I've got,
> now)?
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> -Jeremy Wakeman
>
>
> /opt/csw/apache2/sbin/httpd -t
> Syntax OK
>
>
> /opt/csw/apache2/sbin/httpd -v
> Server version: Apache/2.2.4 (Unix)
> Server built:   Feb 19 2007 00:20:08
>
>
> /opt/csw/apache2/sbin/httpd -V
> Server version: Apache/2.2.4 (Unix)
> Server built:   Feb 19 2007 00:20:08
> Server's Module Magic Number: 20051115:4
> Server loaded:  APR 1.2.8, APR-Util 1.2.8
> Compiled using: APR 1.2.8, APR-Util 1.2.8
> Architecture:   32-bit
> Server MPM:     Prefork
>   threaded:     no
>     forked:     yes (variable process count)
> Server compiled with....
>  -D APACHE_MPM_DIR="server/mpm/prefork"
>  -D APR_HAS_SENDFILE
>  -D APR_HAS_MMAP
>  -D APR_HAVE_IPV6 (IPv4-mapped addresses enabled)
>  -D APR_USE_FCNTL_SERIALIZE
>  -D APR_USE_PTHREAD_SERIALIZE
>  -D SINGLE_LISTEN_UNSERIALIZED_ACCEPT
>  -D APR_HAS_OTHER_CHILD
>  -D AP_HAVE_RELIABLE_PIPED_LOGS
>  -D DYNAMIC_MODULE_LIMIT=128
>  -D HTTPD_ROOT="/opt/csw/apache2"
>  -D SUEXEC_BIN="/opt/csw/apache2/sbin/suexec"
>  -D DEFAULT_PIDLOG="/var/run/httpd.pid"
>  -D DEFAULT_SCOREBOARD="logs/apache_runtime_status"
>  -D DEFAULT_LOCKFILE="/var/run/accept.lock"
>  -D DEFAULT_ERRORLOG="logs/error_log"
>  -D AP_TYPES_CONFIG_FILE="etc/mime.types"
>  -D SERVER_CONFIG_FILE="etc/httpd.conf"
>
>
> /opt/csw/apache2/sbin/httpd -S
> VirtualHost configuration:
>          default server portal.ece.drexel.edu
> (/opt/csw/apache2/etc/includes/portal.ece.drexel.edu.conf:1)
>          port 80 namevhost portal.ece.drexel.edu
> (/opt/csw/apache2/etc/includes/portal.ece.drexel.edu.conf:1)
>          port 80 namevhost webmail.ece.drexel.edu
> (/opt/csw/apache2/etc/includes/webmail.ece.drexel.edu.conf:1)
> Syntax OK
>
>
> /opt/csw/apache2/sbin/httpd -M
> Loaded Modules:
>  core_module (static)
>  mpm_prefork_module (static)
>  http_module (static)
>  so_module (static)
>  authn_file_module (shared)
>  authn_dbm_module (shared)
>  authn_anon_module (shared)
>  authn_default_module (shared)
>  authn_alias_module (shared)
>  authz_host_module (shared)
>  authz_groupfile_module (shared)
>  authz_user_module (shared)
>  authz_dbm_module (shared)
>  authz_owner_module (shared)
>  authnz_ldap_module (shared)
>  authz_default_module (shared)
>  auth_basic_module (shared)
>  auth_digest_module (shared)
>  include_module (shared)
>  deflate_module (shared)
>  ldap_module (shared)
>  log_config_module (shared)
>  env_module (shared)
>  mime_magic_module (shared)
>  expires_module (shared)
>  headers_module (shared)
>  setenvif_module (shared)
>  mime_module (shared)
>  status_module (shared)
>  autoindex_module (shared)
>  info_module (shared)
>  cgi_module (shared)
>  negotiation_module (shared)
>  dir_module (shared)
>  actions_module (shared)
>  userdir_module (shared)
>  alias_module (shared)
>  rewrite_module (shared)
>  php5_module (shared)
> Syntax OK
>
>
> # This is the main Apache HTTP server configuration file.  It contains the
> # configuration directives that give the server its instructions.
> # See <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2> for detailed information.
> # In particular, see
> # <URL:http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/directives.html>
> # for a discussion of each configuration directive.
>
> <snip>
>
> <IfModule dir_module>
>     DirectoryIndex index.pl index.html awstats.pl index.php
> </IfModule>
>
> <snip>
>
> # php stuff
>
> LoadModule    php5_module                libexec/libphp5.so
> Addhandler    application/x-httpd-php            .php
>
> <snip>
>
> <VirtualHost *:80>
>     ServerAlias webmail.ece.drexel.edu
>     ServerAlias webmail.coe.drexel.edu
>     ServerName webmail.ece.drexel.edu
>     ScriptAlias /cgi/ "/web/webmail/cgi/"
>     DirectoryIndex index.php
>         DocumentRoot /web/webmail
>         TransferLog /var/log/http/webmail/access_log
>         ErrorLog /var/log/http/webmail/error_log
> </VirtualHost>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>



-- 
Manish Agrawal
Asstt. Prof., Dept. of ISDS, Univ. of South Florida
4202 E. Fowler Ave., CIS 1040, Tampa, Fl 33620 - 7800, U.S.A.
(813)-974-6716 (W) 974-6749 (FAX) magrawal at coba.usf.edu
http://coba.usf.edu/departments/isds/faculty/agrawal/index.html
--


From gwyche at io.com  Fri Sep  7 18:39:00 2007
From: gwyche at io.com (George Wyche)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:39:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Which SUN* pkg supplanted by CSW* pkg?
Message-ID: <1353.66.90.167.124.1189183140.squirrel@webmail.io.com>

@all

I am just going through Solaris 10 8/07 "upgrade". I marked "custom" and I
see a lot of packages that I know duplicate what I am now getting from
Blastwave.

I omitted a lot of those. However, I bet I missed a bunch. I can easily
review the packages I have added via Blastwave.

Do we have a way of knowing which SUNW* packages may be removed each time
we add a Blastwave package? Depending on a  simple phrase in the pkg name
leaves me uneasy about doing a pkgrm of a SUNW pkg with the same phrase.

I can guess that there is not necessarily a one for one match up. There
might not even be a SUNW(group) to CSW(group) match up. Where a match up
DOES occur, I want to pkgrm the SUNW version.

Any advise?

ggw



From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep  7 19:24:17 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 13:24:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Which SUN* pkg supplanted by CSW* pkg?
In-Reply-To: <1353.66.90.167.124.1189183140.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
References: <1353.66.90.167.124.1189183140.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
Message-ID: <33093.72.39.216.186.1189185857.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> @all
>
> I am just going through Solaris 10 8/07 "upgrade". I marked "custom" and I
> see a lot of packages that I know duplicate what I am now getting from
> Blastwave.
>
> I omitted a lot of those. However, I bet I missed a bunch. I can easily
> review the packages I have added via Blastwave.
>
> Do we have a way of knowing which SUNW* packages may be removed each time
> we add a Blastwave package? Depending on a  simple phrase in the pkg name
> leaves me uneasy about doing a pkgrm of a SUNW pkg with the same phrase.
>
> I can guess that there is not necessarily a one for one match up. There
> might not even be a SUNW(group) to CSW(group) match up. Where a match up
> DOES occur, I want to pkgrm the SUNW version.
>
> Any advise?
>
> ggw

You have hit a big issue. I too was looking at the new Solaris 10 release
and I took note also of the new Companion DVD which has a whopping 119
packages on it as well as a version of KDE from 2004.

All joking aside we have a lot of overlap and that is because we are still
supporting Solaris 8 as well as getting more up to date software out the
door for Solaris 10 users.

Making a comparison map .. sounds like a great weekend project for me.

-
Dennis Clarke



From gwyche at io.com  Fri Sep  7 19:50:33 2007
From: gwyche at io.com (George Wyche)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:50:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Which SUN* pkg supplanted by CSW* pkg?
In-Reply-To: <33093.72.39.216.186.1189185857.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <1353.66.90.167.124.1189183140.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<33093.72.39.216.186.1189185857.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <1636.66.90.167.124.1189187433.squirrel@webmail.io.com>

@Dennis
Kudos to you. Last week I followed your blow by blow Solaris 10
installation. THAT is the kind of installation hand holding I crave.

Thanks! Hope you didn't OD on caffine.
George Wyche


>
> Making a comparison map .. sounds like a great weekend project for me.
>
> -
> Dennis Clarke




From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep  7 20:28:52 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 14:28:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Which SUN* pkg supplanted by CSW* pkg?
In-Reply-To: <1636.66.90.167.124.1189187433.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
References: <1353.66.90.167.124.1189183140.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<33093.72.39.216.186.1189185857.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<1636.66.90.167.124.1189187433.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
Message-ID: <33215.72.39.216.186.1189189732.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> @Dennis
> Kudos to you. Last week I followed your blow by blow Solaris 10
> installation. THAT is the kind of installation hand holding I crave.
>
> Thanks! Hope you didn't OD on caffine.

ha ha !

I was a mess after that .. it took a LOT of hours to do and now I need to
update it for Solaris 10 Uptade 4 and for Solaris Express which will release
next week sometime. The snv_70b should make for a sweet install.

I will also write up docs on how to install Studio 11 and Studio 12 into the
same machine and then give a blow by blow step by step on how to compile a
complex package like GCC 4.2.1 and make a SVR4 package for it.

That will take a month of work possible.

-
Dennis Clarke



From cargdrac at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  7 21:45:25 2007
From: cargdrac at hotmail.com (Mauricio Cerna)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:45:25 +0000
Subject: [csw-users] Apache/php issue
In-Reply-To: <op.tyajvdn6z3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <BLU116-F9A9960A9D2CC3184CC1FDCCC50@phx.gbl>

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From mcse47 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 11 15:04:39 2007
From: mcse47 at hotmail.com (Tracey Flanders)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:04:39 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave Package
	Installation
Message-ID: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>

I was wonder, does it make sense to install the minimal Solaris 10 OS 
packages and then install only the blastwave software packages. For 
instance, if I wanted the gnome enviroment. I would install Solaris without 
gnome then install it with 'pkg-get install gnome' after setting up the 
blastwave pkg-gt.conf file. I ask because my gnome setup is acting up where 
the gnome-panels don't load.  I assume  its because I have Sol10 package 
libraries and Blastwave packages where dependencies are in conflict. Any 
help is appreciated.

tflande

_________________________________________________________________
A place for moms to take a break! 
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us



From dclarke at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 11 15:18:14 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:18:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave Package
 Installation
In-Reply-To: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> I was wonder, does it make sense to install the minimal Solaris 10 OS
> packages and then install only the blastwave software packages. For
> instance, if I wanted the gnome enviroment. I would install Solaris without
> gnome then install it with 'pkg-get install gnome' after setting up the
> blastwave pkg-gt.conf file. I ask because my gnome setup is acting up where
> the gnome-panels don't load.  I assume  its because I have Sol10 package
> libraries and Blastwave packages where dependencies are in conflict. Any
> help is appreciated.
>
> tflande

I sometimes do testing like this.

If one thinks about it, the stack of software from Blastwave has pretty much
every software feature that you would get in stock Solaris 10 plus about
1000 other software packages. The libraries and dependencies are built to
resolve within the /opt/csw file tree and only link with SUN provided
packages when absolutely needed. Our build of bash is actually up to date
where the version that comes with Solaris 10 update 4 is still lagging way
behind.

The GNOME suite is very large and a lot of work goes into testing it. i have
personally poured endless nights and days into testing. It will work all on
its own stand-alone in Solaris 8 upwards.

That was always the plan.

In fact, one could easily build an OpenSolaris based distro with just core
functions in it and then drag in the Blastwave software for userland stuff.

Dennis



From zizban at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 15:22:59 2007
From: zizban at gmail.com (Chris Turkel)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:22:59 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave Package
	Installation
In-Reply-To: <60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>
	<60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <ea2809f50709110622w755d4346if3dd0de2f12898ee@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/11/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
>
>
> > I was wonder, does it make sense to install the minimal Solaris 10 OS
> > packages and then install only the blastwave software packages. For
> > instance, if I wanted the gnome enviroment. I would install Solaris
> without
> > gnome then install it with 'pkg-get install gnome' after setting up the
> > blastwave pkg-gt.conf file. I ask because my gnome setup is acting up
> where
> > the gnome-panels don't load.  I assume  its because I have Sol10 package
> > libraries and Blastwave packages where dependencies are in conflict. Any
> > help is appreciated.
> >
> > tflande
>
> I sometimes do testing like this.
>
> If one thinks about it, the stack of software from Blastwave has pretty
> much
> every software feature that you would get in stock Solaris 10 plus about
> 1000 other software packages. The libraries and dependencies are built to
> resolve within the /opt/csw file tree and only link with SUN provided
> packages when absolutely needed. Our build of bash is actually up to date
> where the version that comes with Solaris 10 update 4 is still lagging way
> behind.
>
> The GNOME suite is very large and a lot of work goes into testing it. i
> have
> personally poured endless nights and days into testing. It will work all
> on
> its own stand-alone in Solaris 8 upwards.
>
> That was always the plan.
>
> In fact, one could easily build an OpenSolaris based distro with just core
> functions in it and then drag in the Blastwave software for userland
> stuff.
>
> Dennis



I use Blasewave's Gnome all the time. It rocks. Do you know if it is
possible to install Solaris without JDS? Have two of everything eats up a
lot of disk space.

Chris
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From mcse47 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 11 15:30:16 2007
From: mcse47 at hotmail.com (Tracey Flanders)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:30:16 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave
	PackageInstallation
Message-ID: <BAY123-F24DA8052F976091FD974FDD4C10@phx.gbl>

That was my other question. Does it make sense to have 2 copies of gnome. 
I'm just trying to understand if it's needed. I come from linux background 
and understand the dependencies situation. I'm pretty new to solaris and 
would like to know what the proper build procedure for solaris 10 while 
getting the nice packages from blastwave. Blastwave seems like the only 
decent place that has the best packages available for Solaris that I am use 
to using. Thanks.

Tracey Flanders



----Original Message Follows----
From: "Chris Turkel" <zizban at gmail.com>
Reply-To: questions and discussions <users at lists.blastwave.org>
To: "questions and discussions" <users at lists.blastwave.org>
Subject: Re: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave 
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FILETIME=[F65878E0:01C7F476]

On 9/11/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
 >
 >
 > > I was wonder, does it make sense to install the minimal Solaris 10 OS
 > > packages and then install only the blastwave software packages. For
 > > instance, if I wanted the gnome enviroment. I would install Solaris
 > without
 > > gnome then install it with 'pkg-get install gnome' after setting up the
 > > blastwave pkg-gt.conf file. I ask because my gnome setup is acting up
 > where
 > > the gnome-panels don't load.  I assume  its because I have Sol10 
package
 > > libraries and Blastwave packages where dependencies are in conflict. 
Any
 > > help is appreciated.
 > >
 > > tflande
 >
 > I sometimes do testing like this.
 >
 > If one thinks about it, the stack of software from Blastwave has pretty
 > much
 > every software feature that you would get in stock Solaris 10 plus about
 > 1000 other software packages. The libraries and dependencies are built to
 > resolve within the /opt/csw file tree and only link with SUN provided
 > packages when absolutely needed. Our build of bash is actually up to date
 > where the version that comes with Solaris 10 update 4 is still lagging 
way
 > behind.
 >
 > The GNOME suite is very large and a lot of work goes into testing it. i
 > have
 > personally poured endless nights and days into testing. It will work all
 > on
 > its own stand-alone in Solaris 8 upwards.
 >
 > That was always the plan.
 >
 > In fact, one could easily build an OpenSolaris based distro with just 
core
 > functions in it and then drag in the Blastwave software for userland
 > stuff.
 >
 > Dennis



I use Blasewave's Gnome all the time. It rocks. Do you know if it is
possible to install Solaris without JDS? Have two of everything eats up a
lot of disk space.

Chris


_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users at lists.blastwave.org
https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users

_________________________________________________________________
Share your special parenting moments! 
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us



From brandorr at opensolaris.org  Tue Sep 11 16:08:30 2007
From: brandorr at opensolaris.org (Brandorr)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:08:30 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] OFFLLIST response to thread
Message-ID: <5b5090780709110708m45926c1bm308db3645d3d4c60@mail.gmail.com>

asily build an OpenSolaris based distro with just core
> functions in it and then drag in the Blastwave software for userland stuff.

If you are going to strip out all the userland stuff, would there be
any advantage over  running Nexenta? (It seems you get more packages)

Thanks,
Brian

P.S. - Are you independently wealthy? I wonder how you afford the
Blastwave stuff?

-- 
- Brian Gupta

http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nycosug/


From gwyche at io.com  Tue Sep 11 16:17:11 2007
From: gwyche at io.com (George Wyche)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 09:17:11 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave
 PackageInstallation
In-Reply-To: <BAY123-F24DA8052F976091FD974FDD4C10@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY123-F24DA8052F976091FD974FDD4C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <32816.66.90.167.124.1189520231.squirrel@webmail.io.com>

@Tracey
> That was my other question. Does it make sense to have 2 copies of gnome.
> I'm just trying to understand if it's needed. I come from linux background
> and understand the dependencies situation. I'm pretty new to solaris and
> would like to know what the proper build procedure for solaris 10 while
> getting the nice packages from blastwave. Blastwave seems like the only
> decent place that has the best packages available for Solaris that I am
> use
> to using. Thanks.
>
> Tracey Flanders

Well. I have now installed Solaris10 8/07 4 times and I have some advice.
Get rid of the Solaris packages AFTER you install. Figure out, which I
haven't done, how to get Solaris OS to embrace the /opt/csw tree.

#1 build: I did custom and left out Gnome, thinking to use Blastwave. Doh!
The first time I tried to log in the login screens would not complete...
Needed Gnome. Don't have it yet. I continued as console root and installed
my blastwave packages and *tried* to get the PATH to include /opt/csw, et
cetera, but obviously failed. Login screens acted just the same.

#2 build: Did upgrade, thinking to pick up Gnome from Sun. Failed. No change.

#3 build: Let Sun have their way... Bog standard install. (Just love the
UK-ism.) Login worked! Did blastwave packages. FAILED! Out of space! Doh!
The partitioning was, let us say, inconvenient.

#4 build: Custom install. Followed Dennis' Solaris10 11/06 install (even
though I use Sparc). Then (after some internet connectivity issues) loaded
on blastwave packages. SUCCESS.

George Wyche



From zizban at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 16:29:12 2007
From: zizban at gmail.com (Chris Turkel)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:29:12 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave
	PackageInstallation
In-Reply-To: <32816.66.90.167.124.1189520231.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
References: <BAY123-F24DA8052F976091FD974FDD4C10@phx.gbl>
	<32816.66.90.167.124.1189520231.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
Message-ID: <ea2809f50709110729o158f8df7sa556b3c830f6ab4c@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/11/07, George Wyche <gwyche at io.com> wrote:
>
> @Tracey
> > That was my other question. Does it make sense to have 2 copies of
> gnome.
> > I'm just trying to understand if it's needed. I come from linux
> background
> > and understand the dependencies situation. I'm pretty new to solaris and
> > would like to know what the proper build procedure for solaris 10 while
> > getting the nice packages from blastwave. Blastwave seems like the only
> > decent place that has the best packages available for Solaris that I am
> > use
> > to using. Thanks.
> >
> > Tracey Flanders
>
> Well. I have now installed Solaris10 8/07 4 times and I have some advice.
> Get rid of the Solaris packages AFTER you install. Figure out, which I
> haven't done, how to get Solaris OS to embrace the /opt/csw tree.
>
> #1 build: I did custom and left out Gnome, thinking to use Blastwave. Doh!
> The first time I tried to log in the login screens would not complete...
> Needed Gnome. Don't have it yet. I continued as console root and installed
> my blastwave packages and *tried* to get the PATH to include /opt/csw, et
> cetera, but obviously failed. Login screens acted just the same.
>
> #2 build: Did upgrade, thinking to pick up Gnome from Sun. Failed. No
> change.
>
> #3 build: Let Sun have their way... Bog standard install. (Just love the
> UK-ism.) Login worked! Did blastwave packages. FAILED! Out of space! Doh!
> The partitioning was, let us say, inconvenient.
>
> #4 build: Custom install. Followed Dennis' Solaris10 11/06 install (even
> though I use Sparc). Then (after some internet connectivity issues) loaded
> on blastwave packages. SUCCESS.
>
> George Wyche


I never read that before, thanks! I just assumed he did a standard install.
That's what I get to assuming.
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From anil.verve at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 16:35:45 2007
From: anil.verve at gmail.com (Anil Gulecha)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:05:45 +0530
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave Package
	Installation
In-Reply-To: <60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>
	<60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <148d59250709110735h791ff1dq88e9784cade3577c@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/11/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
>
> In fact, one could easily build an OpenSolaris based distro with just core
> functions in it and then drag in the Blastwave software for userland stuff.
>
Hi Dennis,

I remember you mentioning a project like this (Chinkara/gazelle)? Has
there been any progress?

Regards
Anil


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 11 18:03:55 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:03:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave
 PackageInstallation
In-Reply-To: <ea2809f50709110729o158f8df7sa556b3c830f6ab4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY123-F24DA8052F976091FD974FDD4C10@phx.gbl>
	<32816.66.90.167.124.1189520231.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<ea2809f50709110729o158f8df7sa556b3c830f6ab4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1208.72.39.216.186.1189526635.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On 9/11/07, George Wyche <gwyche at io.com> wrote:
>>
>> @Tracey
>> > That was my other question. Does it make sense to have 2 copies of
>> gnome.
>> > I'm just trying to understand if it's needed. I come from linux
>> background
>> > and understand the dependencies situation. I'm pretty new to solaris and
>> > would like to know what the proper build procedure for solaris 10 while
>> > getting the nice packages from blastwave. Blastwave seems like the only
>> > decent place that has the best packages available for Solaris that I am
>> > use
>> > to using. Thanks.
>> >
>> > Tracey Flanders
>>
>> Well. I have now installed Solaris10 8/07 4 times and I have some advice.
>> Get rid of the Solaris packages AFTER you install. Figure out, which I
>> haven't done, how to get Solaris OS to embrace the /opt/csw tree.
>>
>> #1 build: I did custom and left out Gnome, thinking to use Blastwave. Doh!
>> The first time I tried to log in the login screens would not complete...
>> Needed Gnome. Don't have it yet. I continued as console root and installed
>> my blastwave packages and *tried* to get the PATH to include /opt/csw, et
>> cetera, but obviously failed. Login screens acted just the same.
>>
>> #2 build: Did upgrade, thinking to pick up Gnome from Sun. Failed. No
>> change.
>>
>> #3 build: Let Sun have their way... Bog standard install. (Just love the
>> UK-ism.) Login worked! Did blastwave packages. FAILED! Out of space! Doh!
>> The partitioning was, let us say, inconvenient.
>>
>> #4 build: Custom install. Followed Dennis' Solaris10 11/06 install (even
>> though I use Sparc). Then (after some internet connectivity issues) loaded
>> on blastwave packages. SUCCESS.
>>
>> George Wyche
>
>
> I never read that before, thanks! I just assumed he did a standard install.
> That's what I get to assuming.

Just want to let you all know that I *know* that I need to updtae my docs on
Blastwave and ensure that people can go ahead with either x86 or Sparc with
Solaris 10 Update 4 or snv_70b ( SXDE ) and also get GNOME or XFCE or KDE
from Blastwave running neatly.

It is not obvious that you need to look at the PATH in /etc/default/login or
a few other little things.

-
Dennis Clarke



From zizban at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 18:18:31 2007
From: zizban at gmail.com (Chris Turkel)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:18:31 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave
	PackageInstallation
In-Reply-To: <1208.72.39.216.186.1189526635.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <BAY123-F24DA8052F976091FD974FDD4C10@phx.gbl>
	<32816.66.90.167.124.1189520231.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<ea2809f50709110729o158f8df7sa556b3c830f6ab4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1208.72.39.216.186.1189526635.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <ea2809f50709110918m3e13ac01q7f9d68a613890ae1@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/11/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
>
>
> > On 9/11/07, George Wyche <gwyche at io.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> @Tracey
> >> > That was my other question. Does it make sense to have 2 copies of
> >> gnome.
> >> > I'm just trying to understand if it's needed. I come from linux
> >> background
> >> > and understand the dependencies situation. I'm pretty new to solaris
> and
> >> > would like to know what the proper build procedure for solaris 10
> while
> >> > getting the nice packages from blastwave. Blastwave seems like the
> only
> >> > decent place that has the best packages available for Solaris that I
> am
> >> > use
> >> > to using. Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > Tracey Flanders
> >>
> >> Well. I have now installed Solaris10 8/07 4 times and I have some
> advice.
> >> Get rid of the Solaris packages AFTER you install. Figure out, which I
> >> haven't done, how to get Solaris OS to embrace the /opt/csw tree.
> >>
> >> #1 build: I did custom and left out Gnome, thinking to use Blastwave.
> Doh!
> >> The first time I tried to log in the login screens would not
> complete...
> >> Needed Gnome. Don't have it yet. I continued as console root and
> installed
> >> my blastwave packages and *tried* to get the PATH to include /opt/csw,
> et
> >> cetera, but obviously failed. Login screens acted just the same.
> >>
> >> #2 build: Did upgrade, thinking to pick up Gnome from Sun. Failed. No
> >> change.
> >>
> >> #3 build: Let Sun have their way... Bog standard install. (Just love
> the
> >> UK-ism.) Login worked! Did blastwave packages. FAILED! Out of space!
> Doh!
> >> The partitioning was, let us say, inconvenient.
> >>
> >> #4 build: Custom install. Followed Dennis' Solaris10 11/06 install
> (even
> >> though I use Sparc). Then (after some internet connectivity issues)
> loaded
> >> on blastwave packages. SUCCESS.
> >>
> >> George Wyche
> >
> >
> > I never read that before, thanks! I just assumed he did a standard
> install.
> > That's what I get to assuming.
>
> Just want to let you all know that I *know* that I need to updtae my docs
> on
> Blastwave and ensure that people can go ahead with either x86 or Sparc
> with
> Solaris 10 Update 4 or snv_70b ( SXDE ) and also get GNOME or XFCE or KDE
> from Blastwave running neatly.
>
> It is not obvious that you need to look at the PATH in /etc/default/login
> or
> a few other little things.


I found the docs were just fine. Keep up the good work.
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From dclarke at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 11 18:18:56 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:18:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Nexenta
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780709110708m45926c1bm308db3645d3d4c60@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b5090780709110708m45926c1bm308db3645d3d4c60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1233.72.39.216.186.1189527536.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> asily build an OpenSolaris based distro with just core
>> functions in it and then drag in the Blastwave software for userland
>> stuff.
>
> If you are going to strip out all the userland stuff, would there be
> any advantage over  running Nexenta? (It seems you get more packages)

The Nexenta software is all built on top of the Nexenta kernel and with GCC
I think. All the software at Blastwave is built on Solaris with Studio tools
( some GCC, our own GCC, sometimes ) and tested to run on Solaris 8 upwards.
It is all about long term stability and portability across Solaris versions.

You can always go hybrid if you want but I was thinking that we should
always keep the SUS ( POSIX etc ) compliant tools around. Always. Always
have the XPG4 tools as well as everything from the UNIX specs.

After all, Solaris is a UNIX system and OpenSolaris is UNIX source.

Dennis



From dclarke at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 11 18:21:24 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:21:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave Package
 Installation
In-Reply-To: <ea2809f50709110622w755d4346if3dd0de2f12898ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>
	<60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<ea2809f50709110622w755d4346if3dd0de2f12898ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1237.72.39.216.186.1189527684.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


>
>
> I use Blasewave's Gnome all the time. It rocks. Do you know if it is
> possible to install Solaris without JDS? Have two of everything eats up a
> lot of disk space.
>

Blasewave ? I must go and register that domain :-)

Yes it is possible but non-trivial for the average user.

I need to specify a package list that one could go with that allows a user
to install what they *need* from Solaris and then what they *want* from
Blastwave.

Dennis Clarke



From dclarke at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 11 18:25:04 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:25:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave Package
 Installation
In-Reply-To: <148d59250709110735h791ff1dq88e9784cade3577c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>
	<60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<148d59250709110735h791ff1dq88e9784cade3577c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1242.72.39.216.186.1189527904.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On 9/11/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
>>
>> In fact, one could easily build an OpenSolaris based distro with just core
>> functions in it and then drag in the Blastwave software for userland
>> stuff.
>>
> Hi Dennis,
>
> I remember you mentioning a project like this (Chinkara/gazelle)? Has
> there been any progress?
>

I was caught up in some business issues that really took me away. I have my
hands into too many company interests right now and I want to focus sharply
on products and services related to Solaris and OpenSolaris. It is a niche
market to be sure but a good one. A market with very loyal users and
customers.

With some re-structuring out of the way ( damn lawyers! ) I am able to get
back to work again.

So .. the short answer is .. not much .. but much coming soon.

There are maillists to join if you care to and I hope that you do.
Please see Gazelle and Chinkara at :

    https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo

Dennis



From zizban at gmail.com  Tue Sep 11 18:25:31 2007
From: zizban at gmail.com (Chris Turkel)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:25:31 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave Package
	Installation
In-Reply-To: <1237.72.39.216.186.1189527684.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <BAY123-F36618F208C3462A5394076D4C10@phx.gbl>
	<60401.70.50.143.147.1189516694.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<ea2809f50709110622w755d4346if3dd0de2f12898ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<1237.72.39.216.186.1189527684.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <ea2809f50709110925g44d65bbeo1b7621edf90ac200@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/11/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > I use Blasewave's Gnome all the time. It rocks. Do you know if it is
> > possible to install Solaris without JDS? Have two of everything eats up
> a
> > lot of disk space.
> >
>
> Blasewave ? I must go and register that domain :-)
>
> Yes it is possible but non-trivial for the average user.
>
> I need to specify a package list that one could go with that allows a user
> to install what they *need* from Solaris and then what they *want* from
> Blastwave.
>
> Dennis Clarke


Blasewave is what happens when  I try to type and talk on the phone at the
same time :)

Non trivial? Solaris? Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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From dclarke at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 11 18:30:53 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:30:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Initial Solaris Installation and Blastwave
 PackageInstallation
In-Reply-To: <ea2809f50709110918m3e13ac01q7f9d68a613890ae1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY123-F24DA8052F976091FD974FDD4C10@phx.gbl>
	<32816.66.90.167.124.1189520231.squirrel@webmail.io.com>
	<ea2809f50709110729o158f8df7sa556b3c830f6ab4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<1208.72.39.216.186.1189526635.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<ea2809f50709110918m3e13ac01q7f9d68a613890ae1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1262.72.39.216.186.1189528253.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


>> It is not obvious that you need to look at the PATH in /etc/default/login
>> or
>> a few other little things.
>
>
> I found the docs were just fine. Keep up the good work.

Thanks !

I have been working on a storyboard for the Solaris 10 Update 4 docs as well
as the SXDE docs. People have asked me to document howto do various little
things like set up ZFS and then share it out via NFS.

You would never guess what one of the questions is that I get a lot. How to
setup dialup networking.

So .. guess what ?

I started on that too.



-
Dennis Clarke



From yann at pleiades.fr.eu.org  Tue Sep 11 22:30:18 2007
From: yann at pleiades.fr.eu.org (Yann Rouillard)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 22:30:18 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] WARNING: upgrading ssh will kill ssh connections under
	Solaris 10
Message-ID: <1189542618.32228.0.camel@taygete>

A new openssh package will soon land in the unstable repository but due
to a bug in SMF support, upgrading to this package will kill all
previous sshd processes 60 seconds after the previous package is
removed, thus closing all sshd connections. 
This problem only affects Solaris >= 10.

You are then strongly advised to perform this upgrade with no user
logged by ssh, and it is also recommended to use a console or a non-ssh
remote access to perform the upgrade. 

If you run pkg-get from a ssh connection, the connection will be closed
60s after the previous pakages removal, this could lead in the new ssh
package incorrectly installed, if it happens before the upgrade is
finished
Also, if the ssh service has problem being restarted correctly, you
would not be able to reconnect to your computer remotely.

If you have only a ssh access avaible, you could launch another ssh
daemon on non-standard port:
        /opt/csw/sbin/sshd -p 2022

and then connect to your computer daemon using this port:
        ssh -p 2022 yourcomputer

This connection will not be monitored by SMF and hence will not be
closed by the upgrade process.


This new package solves this issue and next upgrades will not suffer
from this problem.

Yann




From jhuysing at gmail.com  Wed Sep 12 07:15:18 2007
From: jhuysing at gmail.com (John huysing)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:15:18 +1000
Subject: [csw-users] More up to date libnet Package request
Message-ID: <f3b856a20709112215r645d89c6u90791f165b009881@mail.gmail.com>


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From anil.verve at gmail.com  Wed Sep 12 07:35:06 2007
From: anil.verve at gmail.com (Anil Gulecha)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:05:06 +0530
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
Message-ID: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and not 10
and above? Perhaps I'm uneducated as to the number of actual users of
8 & 9.

Also when the packages are created for 8, what does one lose (or
rather not gain)? As in does using solaris 8 as the base not allow
some available good technologies in solaris 10?

If yes, has a 10 and above repository been considered?

Regards
Anil

PS :I did google a bit, but did not find convincing data. Perhaps the
maintainers of various packages can elaborate?


From james at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 12 11:17:00 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:17:00 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>

On 9/12/07, 6:35:06 AM, Anil Gulecha <anil.verve at gmail.com> wrote regarding
[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and not 10
> and above?

Because people including myself have Solaris 8 systems.


> Perhaps I'm uneducated as to the number of actual users of
> 8 & 9.

As a Solaris user yourself I hope you appreciate the efforts Blastwave
makes to support minority computer users.


> Also when the packages are created for 8, what does one lose (or
> rather not gain)? As in does using solaris 8 as the base not allow
> some available good technologies in solaris 10?

Very little difference in the main.  Solaris 8 programs work in zones
and on ZFS.  There are a few differences but you will find in most
cases these are factored in to the base Solaris 8 package, eg,
SMF install classes and AMD64 binaries.  Ie, The Solaris 8
packages have features for S10.


> If yes, has a 10 and above repository been considered?

It exists.
Watch and you will see pkg-get take from a subdirectory for your
arch.




James.


From khfp.blastwave0704 at gmx.de  Thu Sep 13 13:51:53 2007
From: khfp.blastwave0704 at gmx.de (Klaus Heinz)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:51:53 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] typo in gar.conf.mk?
Message-ID: <20070913115153.236700@gmx.net>

Hi,

reading http://svn.blastwave.org/trac/wiki/GettingStarted I understand
that SKIPTEST=1 is supposed to disable the tests.
The behaviour I see is that SKIPTEST=1 _enables_ the tests while without
defining SKIPTESTS they are disabled.

A look at gar.conf.mk confirms this, the logic seems to be reversed:

  ifeq ($(SKIPTEST),1)
  TEST_SCRIPTS      ?= $(WORKSRC)/Makefile
  else
  TEST_SCRIPTS       =
  endif

This is SVN revision 1573.

ciao
     Klaus

-- 
GMX FreeMail: 1 GB Postfach, 5 E-Mail-Adressen, 10 Free SMS.
Alle Infos und kostenlose Anmeldung: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freemail


From comand at blastwave.org  Thu Sep 13 17:24:44 2007
From: comand at blastwave.org (Cory Omand)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 08:24:44 -0700
Subject: [csw-users] typo in gar.conf.mk?
In-Reply-To: <20070913115153.236700@gmx.net>
References: <20070913115153.236700@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <ffd485d70709130824w4132279dtb152a9c3e1109c92@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/13/07, Klaus Heinz <khfp.blastwave0704 at gmx.de> wrote:
> reading http://svn.blastwave.org/trac/wiki/GettingStarted I understand
> that SKIPTEST=1 is supposed to disable the tests.
> The behaviour I see is that SKIPTEST=1 _enables_ the tests while without
> defining SKIPTESTS they are disabled.

Yeah, not sure how this escaped detection for so long -- it is now
fixed in r1574.  Thanks for finding this!

- C.


From John.B.Taylor at Sun.COM  Fri Sep 14 23:41:50 2007
From: John.B.Taylor at Sun.COM (Ben Taylor)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:41:50 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>

James Lee wrote:

>On 9/12/07, 6:35:06 AM, Anil Gulecha <anil.verve at gmail.com> wrote regarding
>[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>  
>
>>I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and not 10
>>and above?
>>    
>>
>
>Because people including myself have Solaris 8 systems.
>  
>
you like working on really slow systems?

>>Perhaps I'm uneducated as to the number of actual users of
>>8 & 9.
>>    
>>
>
>As a Solaris user yourself I hope you appreciate the efforts Blastwave
>makes to support minority computer users.
>  
>
I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and nevada
based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive purposes.
Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and Solaris
2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what. 

No only that, but the amount of work required to make it all work on a
dead OS when Solaris 10 is really a premeire OS, is just beyond me,
not to mention we are coming up on 3 years of Solaris 10 being released.

I really hope Gazelle will find it's legs.






From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 14 23:56:03 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:56:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <18686.66.225.151.225.1189806963.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> James Lee wrote:
>
>>On 9/12/07, 6:35:06 AM, Anil Gulecha <anil.verve at gmail.com> wrote regarding
>>[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and not 10
>>>and above?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Because people including myself have Solaris 8 systems.
>>
>>
> you like working on really slow systems?
>
>>>Perhaps I'm uneducated as to the number of actual users of
>>>8 & 9.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>As a Solaris user yourself I hope you appreciate the efforts Blastwave
>>makes to support minority computer users.
>>
>>
> I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
> 7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
> blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and nevada
> based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
> insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive purposes.
> Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and Solaris
> 2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what.
>
> No only that, but the amount of work required to make it all work on a
> dead OS when Solaris 10 is really a premeire OS, is just beyond me,
> not to mention we are coming up on 3 years of Solaris 10 being released.
>
> I really hope Gazelle will find it's legs.
>

 Gazelle will find its legs when we have another meeting and decide on a
statement of work and then proceed. I am ready with GRUB2 and I think we
can bring in Martin Bochnig and Jorg Schilling and bingo .. we have all the
talent we need to get going.

 Blastwave does what it does because there are still downloads, every day,
from ibiblio.org ( berlios is bigger I think ) for Solaris 8 Sparc users
that amounts to 50% of the traffic.  Regardless of the marketing or the age
of Solaris 10 you will have to agree to the facts that a large amount of
the Solaris users out there are on Solaris 8 and Solaris 9.  Solaris 10 may
be 50% now but not in the x86 world.  In the x86 world Solaris 10 dominates
with 60% of the users and the rest are all on Nevada.

But I am only looking at the last ten days and only ibiblio and thus *only*
100,000+ installs.

But hey .. let's talk about Gazelle.

Look forwards not backwards.

Dennis


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 14 23:57:48 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:57:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Speaking of things that drive me nuts !
Message-ID: <18691.66.225.151.225.1189807068.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


  Why do we not have a package for QEMU for Solaris 10 ?

  Just a package for AMD64 Solaris 10 is fine in my book and I want that ..
so why don't we have it ?

Dennis



From John.B.Taylor at Sun.COM  Sat Sep 15 00:15:10 2007
From: John.B.Taylor at Sun.COM (Ben Taylor)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:15:10 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Speaking of things that drive me nuts !
In-Reply-To: <18691.66.225.151.225.1189807068.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <18691.66.225.151.225.1189807068.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46EB07EE.70401@Sun.COM>

Dennis Clarke wrote:

>  Why do we not have a package for QEMU for Solaris 10 ?
>  
>
Cause I was told by someone that in no uncertain terms
would a package be only for Solaris 10, and I have
no intention of compiling qemu 7 times (8, 9, 10 sparc,
8, 9, 10, 10 x64), because each Solaris version requires
special behaviors.

>  Just a package for AMD64 Solaris 10 is fine in my book and I want that ..
>so why don't we have it ?
>  
>
The opensolaris qemu project has a tarball for qemu and kqemu
that just works, assuming reading the Readme, running a
simple configure and gmake isn't beyond you. :-)

Unfortunately, the last couple of months, I've had my hands
full, and have not had a chance to re-sequence the changes
on the osol qemu project code back into the CVS qemu tree,
and test some of the major changes that have come down
in the last 45 days (global DMA mechanism, other significant
changes, etc).

I have some free time this weekend, so I'll try and get another
tarball out, and see how the new code works.  There's a fair
amount of testing that needs to occur.

Ben




From dclarke at blastwave.org  Sat Sep 15 00:34:57 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:34:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Speaking of things that drive me nuts !
In-Reply-To: <46EB07EE.70401@Sun.COM>
References: <18691.66.225.151.225.1189807068.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46EB07EE.70401@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <18810.66.225.151.225.1189809297.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Dennis Clarke wrote:
>
>>  Why do we not have a package for QEMU for Solaris 10 ?
>>
>>
> Cause I was told by someone that in no uncertain terms
> would a package be only for Solaris 10

oh geez  ...

how long ago was that ?

We do have a Solaris 10 tree for a reason .. a good reason I think.

> and I have
> no intention of compiling qemu 7 times (8, 9, 10 sparc,
> 8, 9, 10, 10 x64), because each Solaris version requires
> special behaviors.

Would be a lot of work I guess.

>>  Just a package for AMD64 Solaris 10 is fine in my book and I want that ..
>>so why don't we have it ?
>>
>>
> The opensolaris qemu project has a tarball for qemu and kqemu
> that just works, assuming reading the Readme, running a
> simple configure and gmake isn't beyond you. :-)

it is beyond a lot of users. Heck, a browser can be a challenge.

> Unfortunately, the last couple of months, I've had my hands
> full, and have not had a chance to re-sequence the changes
> on the osol qemu project code back into the CVS qemu tree,
> and test some of the major changes that have come down
> in the last 45 days (global DMA mechanism, other significant
> changes, etc).
>
> I have some free time this weekend, so I'll try and get another
> tarball out, and see how the new code works.  There's a fair
> amount of testing that needs to occur.

I can help with that. I want to look at Vista on QEMU. If you're game?

Dennis



From jamesd.wi at gmail.com  Sat Sep 15 17:31:22 2007
From: jamesd.wi at gmail.com (James Dickens)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:31:22 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <cd09bdd10709150831h19498af1g60010aeeeea33937@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/14/07, Ben Taylor <John.B.Taylor at sun.com> wrote:
>
> James Lee wrote:
>
> >On 9/12/07, 6:35:06 AM, Anil Gulecha <anil.verve at gmail.com> wrote
> regarding
> >[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
> >
> >
> >
> >>I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and not 10
> >>and above?
> >>
> >>



Solaris 8 is not dead, i work for a very large corporation, and my team
maintains  140  servers,  130 of which are still running Solaris 8, with no
plans to migrate them off of it, even though Sun is  threatening to remove
support in a year or two.

1/2 of those servers are running  production apps,  and the word
"production" generates its own FUD all on its own, the developers and even
sysadmin are afraid to move on. Even though Sun swears nothing will break,
the stability of the API/ABI is what allows blastwave to do what it does but
no one is moving.

In fact most people would be hard pressed to find a reason what compiling on
Solaris 10 gives the user. I'm a huge fan of Solaris 10 and above, but
really there isn't much reason to move on. Zones, ZFS, DTrace (well for the
most part, and I will cover that next), really dont change the API/ABI so no
need to migrate. Just ship with a SMF manifest and method that only gets
installed on Solaris 10 and later.

Even with DTrace there are only a hand full of apps currently that even
benefit from being built on Solaris 10, the ones that register there own
probes perl, mozilla, and some other scripting languages and most likely
those are being added to Solaris so we wont have to deal with them and
maybe in a year or two the changes will be mainstream and we can build those
on a Solaris 10 box.

James Dickens
uadmin.blogspot.com





>
> >Because people including myself have Solaris 8 systems.
> >
> >
> you like working on really slow systems?
>
> >>Perhaps I'm uneducated as to the number of actual users of
> >>8 & 9.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >As a Solaris user yourself I hope you appreciate the efforts Blastwave
> >makes to support minority computer users.
> >
> >
> I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
> 7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
> blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and nevada
> based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
> insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive purposes.
> Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and Solaris
> 2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what.
>
> No only that, but the amount of work required to make it all work on a
> dead OS when Solaris 10 is really a premeire OS, is just beyond me,
> not to mention we are coming up on 3 years of Solaris 10 being released.
>
> I really hope Gazelle will find it's legs.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
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From dclarke at blastwave.org  Sat Sep 15 18:50:49 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 12:50:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <cd09bdd10709150831h19498af1g60010aeeeea33937@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<cd09bdd10709150831h19498af1g60010aeeeea33937@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50325.72.39.216.186.1189875049.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On 9/14/07, Ben Taylor <John.B.Taylor at sun.com> wrote:
>>
>> James Lee wrote:
>>
>> >On 9/12/07, 6:35:06 AM, Anil Gulecha <anil.verve at gmail.com> wrote
>> regarding
>> >[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>> >
>> >>I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and not 10
>> >>and above?
>> >>
>> >>
>
>
>
> Solaris 8 is not dead, i work for a very large corporation, and my team
> maintains  140  servers,  130 of which are still running Solaris 8, with no
> plans to migrate them off of it, even though Sun is  threatening to remove
> support in a year or two.

This is the same thing that I see everywhere. Solaris 8 is out there and
LOTs of it. I recently installed a new server for a company in Montreal and
they demanded Solaris 8. Talks of anything fancy like Solaris 9 were of no
value.

If Sun wants Solaris 8 users to move forwards then Sun will need to start
beating them with a stick. That will most likely drive them to Linux which
is where Solaris users have been going for years.  Mostly because of
ignorance.

So .. the best thing to do is to shut up and let users do what they want.

Dennis



From iand at blastwave.org  Sun Sep 16 01:17:19 2007
From: iand at blastwave.org (Ian Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 00:17:19 +0100
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <50325.72.39.216.186.1189875049.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>	<cd09bdd10709150831h19498af1g60010aeeeea33937@mail.gmail.com>
	<50325.72.39.216.186.1189875049.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46EC67FF.5010000@blastwave.org>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
> This is the same thing that I see everywhere. Solaris 8 is out there and
> LOTs of it. I recently installed a new server for a company in Montreal and
> they demanded Solaris 8. Talks of anything fancy like Solaris 9 were of no
> value.
> 
> If Sun wants Solaris 8 users to move forwards then Sun will need to start
> beating them with a stick. That will most likely drive them to Linux which
> is where Solaris users have been going for years.  Mostly because of
> ignorance.
> 
> So .. the best thing to do is to shut up and let users do what they want.

I agree.

At work, we've been on Solaris 8 for ages because it was supremely stable and
did everything we wanted of it.  If blastwave didn't support Solaris 8, we
would never have started to use it.

We've started moving to Solaris 10 now, primarily because of the combination
of new hardware, zones and ZFS.  The u4 feature of running Solaris 8 inside a
zone will accelerate this significantly, and I'd be surprised if this didn't
help make the move easier for many others - pity it didn't come sooner.

Ian



From james at blastwave.org  Sun Sep 16 10:41:18 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 08:41:18 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 14/09/07, 22:41:50, Ben Taylor <John.B.Taylor at Sun.COM> wrote regarding
Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> >>I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and not 10
> >>and above?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Because people including myself have Solaris 8 systems.
> >
> >
> you like working on really slow systems?

No I don't.  I don't like working on fast systems either (is vi
at 3GHz with 4 cores any more fun?).  More importantly I don't like
working on systems that don't need fixing.  In fact I don't really
like working but you didn't write to talk about work ethics.

Are you suggesting that Solaris 8 is somehow "really slow" whereas
Solaris 10 isn't?  Or a "really slow" system with Solaris 8 updated
to Solaris 10 will no longer be "really slow"?  I think not.

I'm not against S10 and my new installs have been S10 but for
existing systems the logic is:
    Does S8 support all my services?  Yes.
    Will it cost me money to update existing systems to S10?  Yes.
    Will I make more money with S10 installed?  No.
Debate over.




James.



From pgress at optonline.net  Sun Sep 16 16:53:19 2007
From: pgress at optonline.net (Paul Gress)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:53:19 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <46ED435F.9020207@optonline.net>

James Lee wrote:
> No I don't.  I don't like working on fast systems either (is vi
> at 3GHz with 4 cores any more fun?).  More importantly I don't like
> working on systems that don't need fixing.  In fact I don't really
> like working but you didn't write to talk about work ethics.
>
> Are you suggesting that Solaris 8 is somehow "really slow" whereas
> Solaris 10 isn't?  Or a "really slow" system with Solaris 8 updated
> to Solaris 10 will no longer be "really slow"?  I think not.
>
> I'm not against S10 and my new installs have been S10 but for
> existing systems the logic is:
>     Does S8 support all my services?  Yes.
>     Will it cost me money to update existing systems to S10?  Yes.
>     Will I make more money with S10 installed?  No.
> Debate over.
>
>
>   
So the way I understand this from viewing all the responses back so far, 
people who use Solaris 8 are only using it with servers, and people 
requesting Solaris 10 compiles use Solaris as a Workstation and desktop 
productivity.  So maybe, Blastwave for Solaris 8 can be reduced to only 
server related tools (CUI) and then we can move forward to start 
utilizing the library base included in Solaris 10.

Paul


From james at blastwave.org  Sun Sep 16 16:58:02 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:58:02 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46ED435F.9020207@optonline.net>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46ED435F.9020207@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <20070916.14580200.4000480318@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 16/09/07, 15:53:19, Paul Gress <pgress at optonline.net> wrote regarding 
Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> So the way I understand this from viewing all the responses back so far,
> people who use Solaris 8 are only using it with servers, and people
> requesting Solaris 10 compiles use Solaris as a Workstation and desktop
> productivity.

Nope.  I'm writing this on a Solaris 8 desktop.




James.


From anthony.cogan at thinkunix.com  Sun Sep 16 17:04:27 2007
From: anthony.cogan at thinkunix.com (Anthony Cogan)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:04:27 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>

It's really a debate between us "old timers" Sys. Admins in the  
Enterprise vs. the newer "Linux" (I don't want to say kids, but), kids.

These people who run it at home or co-lo'd somewhere are used to  
upgrading/updating every 6-12 months with the newest and latest  
versions.

Whereas, I remember when I was doing some work at a large plane  
manufacturer, us Sys. Admins were bent because of Y2k testing.  We  
had some Solaris boxes at that time that had been up longer than  
Windows NT had even been released (mainly DNS/Utility server stuff),  
but we didn't want to reset our uptime. ;)

Anyways, in an Enterprise, you don't change just for the sake of  
changing, if it works, then you leave it alone, except for critical  
patches.

Now, like all of us "Old timers" have said, when something compelling  
causes us to upgrade we do.  I just built two servers for my wife's  
online business, a X2100 M2 and a X2200 M2, both running Solaris 10  
with a good number of zones and ZFS.  I have to say, Solaris 10 does  
have some darn nice features and will be the version I use for all  
new builds, but I still do not see a compelling reason to move off of  
Solaris 8.  For some odd reason too, I never have seen any reason to  
go to Solaris 9, I couldn't even tell you one feature in it that  
Solaris 8 didn't have.  Hmph.

I personally like to leave things running smoothly and reading my  
Dilbert or the latest BigAdmin article instead of upgrading, which  
always causes me about a week or two of fine tuning / debugging.

My .02 from this old timer.

On Sep 16, 2007, at 8:41 AM, James Lee wrote:

> On 14/09/07, 22:41:50, Ben Taylor <John.B.Taylor at Sun.COM> wrote  
> regarding
> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>>>> I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and  
>>>> not 10
>>>> and above?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because people including myself have Solaris 8 systems.
>>>
>>>
>> you like working on really slow systems?
>
> No I don't.  I don't like working on fast systems either (is vi
> at 3GHz with 4 cores any more fun?).  More importantly I don't like
> working on systems that don't need fixing.  In fact I don't really
> like working but you didn't write to talk about work ethics.
>
> Are you suggesting that Solaris 8 is somehow "really slow" whereas
> Solaris 10 isn't?  Or a "really slow" system with Solaris 8 updated
> to Solaris 10 will no longer be "really slow"?  I think not.
>
> I'm not against S10 and my new installs have been S10 but for
> existing systems the logic is:
>     Does S8 support all my services?  Yes.
>     Will it cost me money to update existing systems to S10?  Yes.
>     Will I make more money with S10 installed?  No.
> Debate over.
>
>
>
>
> James.
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
> --
> Into The Oven - http://www.intotheoven.com
> Cake, Cookie, & Chocolate Forums - http://www.intotheoven.com/bb/
> Free baking related e-mail accounts - http://freemail.intotheoven.com/



From pgress at optonline.net  Sun Sep 16 18:30:12 2007
From: pgress at optonline.net (Paul Gress)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:30:12 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070916.14580200.4000480318@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46ED435F.9020207@optonline.net>
	<20070916.14580200.4000480318@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <46ED5A14.90600@optonline.net>

James Lee wrote:
> On 16/09/07, 15:53:19, Paul Gress <pgress at optonline.net> wrote regarding 
> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>   
>> So the way I understand this from viewing all the responses back so far,
>> people who use Solaris 8 are only using it with servers, and people
>> requesting Solaris 10 compiles use Solaris as a Workstation and desktop
>> productivity.
>>     
>
> Nope.  I'm writing this on a Solaris 8 desktop.
>
>
>
>   
Well I guess your OS won't bloat because you need all the extra 
libraries Solaris 10 doesn't need.  What are you using for a Web 
browser, Mosaic?  For a text editor, vi?  Well I've been using Unix now 
for 15+ years, started with Interactive Unix from Kodak, and since then 
have always upgraded, even to Solaris 2.1 from Interactive Unix when Sun 
bought them.  From there I have purchased various Sparc workstations and 
current PC's all utilizing Solaris 10.  Yes I think keeping up to date 
with the OS is important, as do a lot of others.  There wouldn't be a 
lot of users with Solaris Express if it wasn't important to them.  I was 
very fluent with vi in the past.  Now, with computer horsepower up, to 
me GUI is the way.  But when I add what's missing in Solaris 10 or want 
the latest version, I get a whole set of redundant libraries that bloats 
my computer hard drive.  Yes I believe it's a problem that needs to be 
fixed.  Blastwave has 3 platforms to install to, but it seems only 
Solaris 8 is used.  Maybe Blastwave shouldn't drop Solaris 8, but they 
should make an effort to reduce the redundant libraries in Solaris 10 by 
making different install scripts for Solaris 10, maybe something like 
looking for Firefox install from the Bejing team of Sun, or even 
existing libraries of GTK and GTK2.  Why is this so difficult, and why 
so much resistance to progress?

Paul


From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 16 20:13:43 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 14:13:43 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46ED5A14.90600@optonline.net>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46ED435F.9020207@optonline.net>	<20070916.14580200.4000480318@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46ED5A14.90600@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <46ED7257.9050305@yahoo.com>

Paul Gress wrote:
> But when I add what's missing in Solaris 10 or want 
> the latest version, I get a whole set of redundant libraries that bloats 
> my computer hard drive.
>   

There are also reports that our duplicate libraries cause problems.


From james at blastwave.org  Sun Sep 16 20:18:26 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:18:26 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46ED5A14.90600@optonline.net>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46ED435F.9020207@optonline.net>
	<20070916.14580200.4000480318@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46ED5A14.90600@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <20070916.18182600.1740398560@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 16/09/07, 17:30:12, Paul Gress <pgress at optonline.net> wrote regarding
Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> Well I guess your OS won't bloat because you need all the extra
> libraries Solaris 10 doesn't need.  What are you using for a Web
> browser, Mosaic?

Firefox 2.0.0.6 - kindly provided by Blastwave.


>  Maybe Blastwave shouldn't drop Solaris 8, but they
> should make an effort to reduce the redundant libraries in Solaris 10 by
> making different install scripts for Solaris 10, maybe something like
> looking for Firefox install from the Bejing team of Sun, or even
> existing libraries of GTK and GTK2.  Why is this so difficult, and why
> so much resistance to progress?

OK, let us consider gtk2.  From Solaris 10:

$ pkgparam SUNWgnome-base-libs VERSION
2.6.0,REV=10.0.3.2004.12.16.15.19

and from Blastwave:

$ pkgparam CSWgtk2 VERSION
2.10.11


In what way are the newer libs of CSWgtk2 resistance to progress?
The duplication is not because of Solaris 8 but because the S10
version is not current and CSWgtk2 would exist regardless of S8.
Asking to use the S10 OS libs is resistance to progress.




James.


From ihsan at blastwave.org  Sun Sep 16 20:31:06 2007
From: ihsan at blastwave.org (Ihsan Dogan)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:31:06 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>

on 14.09.2007 23:41 Ben Taylor said the following:

> I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
> 7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
> blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and nevada
> based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
> insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive purposes.
> Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and Solaris
> 2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what. 

It's true that nobody is installing Solaris 8 anymore, but it's still
widely used and they are not going to be replaced that quickly. I don't
see any reason, why we should drop the support for Solaris 8



Ihsan

-- 
ihsan at dogan.ch		http://blog.dogan.ch/
			http://ihsan.dogan.ch/


From ihsan at dogan.ch  Sun Sep 16 20:31:50 2007
From: ihsan at dogan.ch (Ihsan Dogan)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:31:50 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <46ED7696.7070805@dogan.ch>

on 16.09.2007 10:41 James Lee said the following:

> No I don't.  I don't like working on fast systems either (is vi
> at 3GHz with 4 cores any more fun?).  More importantly I don't like
> working on systems that don't need fixing.  In fact I don't really
> like working but you didn't write to talk about work ethics.

If there would be a multithreaded version of vi, you could take
advantage of your CPU with 4 cores. ;-)



Ihsan

-- 
ihsan at dogan.ch		http://blog.dogan.ch/
			http://ihsan.dogan.ch/


From james at blastwave.org  Sun Sep 16 20:37:46 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:37:46 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46ED7696.7070805@dogan.ch>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46ED7696.7070805@dogan.ch>
Message-ID: <20070916.18374600.599443491@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 16/09/07, 19:31:50, Ihsan Dogan <ihsan at dogan.ch> wrote regarding Re: 
[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> > No I don't.  I don't like working on fast systems either (is vi
> > at 3GHz with 4 cores any more fun?).  More importantly I don't like
> > working on systems that don't need fixing.  In fact I don't really
> > like working but you didn't write to talk about work ethics.

> If there would be a multithreaded version of vi, you could take
> advantage of your CPU with 4 cores. ;-)

I'd have to learn to type with more than one finger.




James.



From jamesd.wi at gmail.com  Mon Sep 17 13:07:25 2007
From: jamesd.wi at gmail.com (James Dickens)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 06:07:25 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM> <46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/16/07, Ihsan Dogan <ihsan at blastwave.org> wrote:
>
> on 14.09.2007 23:41 Ben Taylor said the following:
>
> > I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
> > 7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
> > blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and nevada
> > based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
> > insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive
> purposes.
> > Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and Solaris
> > 2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what.
>
> It's true that nobody is installing Solaris 8 anymore, but it's still
> widely used and they are not going to be replaced that quickly. I don't
> see any reason, why we should drop the support for Solaris 8


sorry lots of people are still installing Solaris 8, we are deploying 4 new
database servers running oracle, all are running Solaris 8. On large servers
I think the number of Solaris 8 instances are growing still...

James Dickens
uadmin.blogspot.com




Ihsan
>
> --
> ihsan at dogan.ch          http://blog.dogan.ch/
>                         http://ihsan.dogan.ch/
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
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From jwheeler at blastwave.org  Mon Sep 17 14:33:59 2007
From: jwheeler at blastwave.org (Jonathan Wheeler)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 00:33:59 +1200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
Message-ID: <46EE7437.3010907@blastwave.org>

Anthony Cogan wrote:
> It's really a debate between us "old timers" Sys. Admins in the  
> Enterprise vs. the newer "Linux" (I don't want to say kids, but), kids.
> 
> These people who run it at home or co-lo'd somewhere are used to  
> upgrading/updating every 6-12 months with the newest and latest  
> versions.
> 
> Whereas, I remember when I was doing some work at a large plane  
> manufacturer, us Sys. Admins were bent because of Y2k testing.  We  
> had some Solaris boxes at that time that had been up longer than  
> Windows NT had even been released (mainly DNS/Utility server stuff),  
> but we didn't want to reset our uptime. ;)
> 
> Anyways, in an Enterprise, you don't change just for the sake of  
> changing, if it works, then you leave it alone, except for critical  
> patches.
> 
> Now, like all of us "Old timers" have said, when something compelling  
> causes us to upgrade we do.  I just built two servers for my wife's  
> online business, a X2100 M2 and a X2200 M2, both running Solaris 10  
> with a good number of zones and ZFS.  I have to say, Solaris 10 does  
> have some darn nice features and will be the version I use for all  
> new builds, but I still do not see a compelling reason to move off of  
> Solaris 8.  For some odd reason too, I never have seen any reason to  
> go to Solaris 9, I couldn't even tell you one feature in it that  
> Solaris 8 didn't have.  Hmph.
> 
> I personally like to leave things running smoothly and reading my  
> Dilbert or the latest BigAdmin article instead of upgrading, which  
> always causes me about a week or two of fine tuning / debugging.
> 
> My .02 from this old timer

Others are probably thinking it, but I want to make sure it's been said.

That was a really insightful email!

As an ex-linux..er...well I ran gentoo for years, so I guess I'm going
to be labeled a "kid" - I found it really helpful to have some insight
into the history of the old-but-wise solaris admin.

Personally, I've not ever installed solaris 10, I'm living in the 11
generation that you mentioned in passing. Joining blastwave, I've been
working my way "backwards" from x86 solaris 11 to sparc solaris8. Wee!

Not having ever used solaris 8, I don't have any soft-spot for it
whatsoever, but you do raise some good points around change.

I've also not seen solaris 9, but it sure sounds like he gets a rough
time! It's always hard being the middle sibling eh?

Thanks Anthony!
Jonathan


From ihsan at blastwave.org  Mon Sep 17 14:54:35 2007
From: ihsan at blastwave.org (Ihsan Dogan)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:54:35 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>
	<cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46EE790B.8070306@blastwave.org>

Am 17.9.2007 13:07 Uhr, James Dickens schrieb:

>     It's true that nobody is installing Solaris 8 anymore, but it's still
>     widely used and they are not going to be replaced that quickly. I don't
>     see any reason, why we should drop the support for Solaris 8 
> sorry lots of people are still installing Solaris 8, we are deploying 4
> new database servers running oracle, all are running Solaris 8. On large
> servers I think the number of Solaris 8 instances are growing still...

This just proves again, that Solaris 8 is still alive and that companies
can't change their policies and processes that easily.




Ihsan

-- 
ihsan at dogan.ch		http://blog.dogan.ch/
	 		http://ihsan.dogan.ch/


From karl.d.thiele at verizonbusiness.com  Mon Sep 17 16:25:43 2007
From: karl.d.thiele at verizonbusiness.com (Thiele, Karl D (Karl))
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:25:43 +0000
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
Message-ID: <36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>

Folks,

Oh, I need to weight in here, very much on the side of Anthony.  Well an
ls | wc -l of /home shows me 167 solaris 8 blades, these are just in my
group. We are one of the biggest customers of Sun. We will be moving
most of our Suns to Solaris 10 from 8 within the next 6-12 months only
because of hardware upgrades to production. New boxes do not support
Solaris 8.

All the developers of UNIX based applications, at this company, have now
come to rely on Blastwave. Almost everyone runs kde. (do not send us
back to CDE, I would have to consider finding a new job).

"If it is not broke do not fix it."  So true in business. Some boxes
that are not being replaced, will remain solaris 8.

You could even freeze off adding new software for Solaris 8, but do not
get rid of it. It is just disk space and that is cheap these days.

My two cents,

-karl

-----Original Message-----
From:
users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.org
[mailto:users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.
org] On Behalf Of Anthony Cogan
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2007 11:04 AM
To: questions and discussions
Subject: Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?

It's really a debate between us "old timers" Sys. Admins in the  
Enterprise vs. the newer "Linux" (I don't want to say kids, but), kids.

These people who run it at home or co-lo'd somewhere are used to  
upgrading/updating every 6-12 months with the newest and latest  
versions.

Whereas, I remember when I was doing some work at a large plane  
manufacturer, us Sys. Admins were bent because of Y2k testing.  We  
had some Solaris boxes at that time that had been up longer than  
Windows NT had even been released (mainly DNS/Utility server stuff),  
but we didn't want to reset our uptime. ;)

Anyways, in an Enterprise, you don't change just for the sake of  
changing, if it works, then you leave it alone, except for critical  
patches.

Now, like all of us "Old timers" have said, when something compelling  
causes us to upgrade we do.  I just built two servers for my wife's  
online business, a X2100 M2 and a X2200 M2, both running Solaris 10  
with a good number of zones and ZFS.  I have to say, Solaris 10 does  
have some darn nice features and will be the version I use for all  
new builds, but I still do not see a compelling reason to move off of  
Solaris 8.  For some odd reason too, I never have seen any reason to  
go to Solaris 9, I couldn't even tell you one feature in it that  
Solaris 8 didn't have.  Hmph.

I personally like to leave things running smoothly and reading my  
Dilbert or the latest BigAdmin article instead of upgrading, which  
always causes me about a week or two of fine tuning / debugging.

My .02 from this old timer.

On Sep 16, 2007, at 8:41 AM, James Lee wrote:

> On 14/09/07, 22:41:50, Ben Taylor <John.B.Taylor at Sun.COM> wrote  
> regarding
> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>>>> I was wondering why blastwave supports solaris 8 & above, and  
>>>> not 10
>>>> and above?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because people including myself have Solaris 8 systems.
>>>
>>>
>> you like working on really slow systems?
>
> No I don't.  I don't like working on fast systems either (is vi
> at 3GHz with 4 cores any more fun?).  More importantly I don't like
> working on systems that don't need fixing.  In fact I don't really
> like working but you didn't write to talk about work ethics.
>
> Are you suggesting that Solaris 8 is somehow "really slow" whereas
> Solaris 10 isn't?  Or a "really slow" system with Solaris 8 updated
> to Solaris 10 will no longer be "really slow"?  I think not.
>
> I'm not against S10 and my new installs have been S10 but for
> existing systems the logic is:
>     Does S8 support all my services?  Yes.
>     Will it cost me money to update existing systems to S10?  Yes.
>     Will I make more money with S10 installed?  No.
> Debate over.
>
>
>
>
> James.
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
> --
> Into The Oven - http://www.intotheoven.com
> Cake, Cookie, & Chocolate Forums - http://www.intotheoven.com/bb/
> Free baking related e-mail accounts - http://freemail.intotheoven.com/

_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users at lists.blastwave.org
https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users


From ben.taylor at sun.com  Mon Sep 17 16:54:47 2007
From: ben.taylor at sun.com (Ben Taylor)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:54:47 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
Message-ID: <46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>

Thiele, Karl D (Karl) wrote:

>Folks,
>
>Oh, I need to weight in here, very much on the side of Anthony.  Well an
>ls | wc -l of /home shows me 167 solaris 8 blades, these are just in my
>group. We are one of the biggest customers of Sun. We will be moving
>most of our Suns to Solaris 10 from 8 within the next 6-12 months only
>because of hardware upgrades to production. New boxes do not support
>Solaris 8.
>
>All the developers of UNIX based applications, at this company, have now
>come to rely on Blastwave. Almost everyone runs kde. (do not send us
>back to CDE, I would have to consider finding a new job).
>
>"If it is not broke do not fix it."  So true in business. Some boxes
>that are not being replaced, will remain solaris 8.
>
>You could even freeze off adding new software for Solaris 8, but do not
>get rid of it. It is just disk space and that is cheap these days.
>  
>

I do not believe I was suggesting that Solaris 8 support be
discontinued.  My experience with Open Source software is
that there are substantially fewer "porters" of OSS to Solaris
than other platforms.  Given that, I think it's a huge waste
of time to have to jump through hoops to get new code
working on such an old OS. 

As I pointed out in another discussion, QEMU has to be
compiled on it's own version, especially if using the KQEMU
accelerator.  There are specific sets of things that go missing
or change as we go backwards from Solaris 10.  Jonathan
Wheeler is dealing with such an issue on libxine, and having
talked to those developers, they wondered why anyone would
bother with libxine on such an old platform.

Hell, blastwave doesn't even have a gcc for x86-64 that can
compile 64-bit apps.

I know Solaris 8 is out there. Hell, I know folks still on 2.4 and
2.5.1 because the developers left and they are to afraid to
move it to a newer OS despite binary compatibility.  But let's
be realistic, you cannot pay Sun (unless you are a big
customer, with a big install base of Solaris 8) to install it
anymore.




From dclarke at blastwave.org  Mon Sep 17 16:53:39 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:53:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <56477.72.39.216.186.1190040819.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Thiele, Karl D (Karl) wrote:
>
>>Folks,
>>
>>Oh, I need to weight in here, very much on the side of Anthony.  Well an
>>ls | wc -l of /home shows me 167 solaris 8 blades, these are just in my
>>group. We are one of the biggest customers of Sun. We will be moving
>>most of our Suns to Solaris 10 from 8 within the next 6-12 months only
>>because of hardware upgrades to production. New boxes do not support
>>Solaris 8.
>>
>>All the developers of UNIX based applications, at this company, have now
>>come to rely on Blastwave. Almost everyone runs kde. (do not send us
>>back to CDE, I would have to consider finding a new job).
>>
>>"If it is not broke do not fix it."  So true in business. Some boxes
>>that are not being replaced, will remain solaris 8.
>>
>>You could even freeze off adding new software for Solaris 8, but do not
>>get rid of it. It is just disk space and that is cheap these days.
>>
>>
>
> I do not believe I was suggesting that Solaris 8 support be
> discontinued.  My experience with Open Source software is
> that there are substantially fewer "porters" of OSS to Solaris
> than other platforms.  Given that, I think it's a huge waste
> of time to have to jump through hoops to get new code
> working on such an old OS.
>
> As I pointed out in another discussion, QEMU has to be
> compiled on it's own version, especially if using the KQEMU
> accelerator.  There are specific sets of things that go missing
> or change as we go backwards from Solaris 10.  Jonathan
> Wheeler is dealing with such an issue on libxine, and having
> talked to those developers, they wondered why anyone would
> bother with libxine on such an old platform.
>
> Hell, blastwave doesn't even have a gcc for x86-64 that can
> compile 64-bit apps.
>
> I know Solaris 8 is out there. Hell, I know folks still on 2.4 and
> 2.5.1 because the developers left and they are to afraid to
> move it to a newer OS despite binary compatibility.  But let's
> be realistic, you cannot pay Sun (unless you are a big
> customer, with a big install base of Solaris 8) to install it
> anymore.

  Excellent !

  Because lots of people *will* pay to have it installed these days.

  Dennis


From ben.taylor at sun.com  Mon Sep 17 17:03:38 2007
From: ben.taylor at sun.com (Ben Taylor)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:03:38 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM> <46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>
	<cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46EE974A.6080102@Sun.COM>

James Dickens wrote:

>
>
> On 9/16/07, *Ihsan Dogan* <ihsan at blastwave.org 
> <mailto:ihsan at blastwave.org>> wrote:
>
>     on 14.09.2007 23:41 Ben Taylor said the following:
>
>     > I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
>     > 7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
>     > blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and
>     nevada
>     > based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
>     > insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive
>     purposes.
>     > Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and
>     Solaris
>     > 2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what.
>
>     It's true that nobody is installing Solaris 8 anymore, but it's still
>     widely used and they are not going to be replaced that quickly. I
>     don't
>     see any reason, why we should drop the support for Solaris 8 
>
>
> sorry lots of people are still installing Solaris 8, we are deploying 
> 4 new database servers running oracle, all are running Solaris 8. On 
> large servers I think the number of Solaris 8 instances are growing 
> still...

You can't even put Solaris 8 on a new large server.  Who are you kidding?
You have to have the latest version of Solaris 9 just to run USIV+ systems.
Niagara based platforms and the new M series have to be Solaris 10 minimum.

Yes, you may have an installed base, and have a bunch of folks maintaining
the status quo.  This is typical entropic risk advoidance.  There's not 
enough
folks (and probably equipment) to baseline the apps on a newer OS, so
no-one wants to change.  And I understand that some ISV's have been very
slow about Solaris 9 and Solaris 10 certification, so that causes some folks
to be limited.  But Oracle? 


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Mon Sep 17 17:05:25 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:05:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EE974A.6080102@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM> <46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>
	<cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE974A.6080102@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <50921.72.39.216.186.1190041525.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> James Dickens wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 9/16/07, *Ihsan Dogan* <ihsan at blastwave.org
>> <mailto:ihsan at blastwave.org>> wrote:
>>
>>     on 14.09.2007 23:41 Ben Taylor said the following:
>>
>>     > I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
>>     > 7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
>>     > blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and
>>     nevada
>>     > based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
>>     > insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive
>>     purposes.
>>     > Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and
>>     Solaris
>>     > 2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what.
>>
>>     It's true that nobody is installing Solaris 8 anymore, but it's still
>>     widely used and they are not going to be replaced that quickly. I
>>     don't
>>     see any reason, why we should drop the support for Solaris 8
>>
>>
>> sorry lots of people are still installing Solaris 8, we are deploying
>> 4 new database servers running oracle, all are running Solaris 8. On
>> large servers I think the number of Solaris 8 instances are growing
>> still...
>
> You can't even put Solaris 8 on a new large server.  Who are you kidding?

  I can install Solaris 8 into a V490 just fine.

  I can install Solaris 8 into most anything with an UltraSparc III and
there are a ton of people out there that want that.

> You have to have the latest version of Solaris 9 just to run USIV+ systems.
> Niagara based platforms and the new M series have to be Solaris 10 minimum.

  Yep, but they won't have real market penetration for years, if ever.

  The Niagra T2 on the other hand may be a real killer of a machine.


  but that is not the point ... the Solaris 8 user base is not going away
for a while yet and that may be the fault of Sun.  Just stop shipping
patches.

> Yes, you may have an installed base, and have a bunch of folks maintaining
> the status quo.  This is typical entropic risk advoidance.  There's not
> enough folks (and probably equipment) to baseline the apps on a newer OS, so
> no-one wants to change.  And I understand that some ISV's have been very
> slow about Solaris 9 and Solaris 10 certification, so that causes some folks
> to be limited.  But Oracle?

Well, the real issue here is should we bother, and by "we" I mean you and I
and a few other guys, bother at all to waste another minute of our lives
doing software work on Solaris 8 ?

I don't want to.

Here is what I am running right now :

-bash-3.00$ uname -a
SunOS aequitas 5.11 snv_69 i86pc i386 i86pc

That is pretty far from Solaris 8.  I would like to work with Studio 12 also
but I think I trust Studio 11 a bit more right now.

Dennis



From Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM  Mon Sep 17 17:30:19 2007
From: Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM (Ben Taylor)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:30:19 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <50921.72.39.216.186.1190041525.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM> <46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>
	<cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE974A.6080102@Sun.COM>
	<50921.72.39.216.186.1190041525.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46EE9D8B.8060600@Sun.COM>

Dennis Clarke wrote:

>>James Dickens wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>On 9/16/07, *Ihsan Dogan* <ihsan at blastwave.org
>>><mailto:ihsan at blastwave.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    on 14.09.2007 23:41 Ben Taylor said the following:
>>>
>>>    > I, for one, do not understand why blastwave insists on supporting a
>>>    > 7 year old operating system as it's base.  the amount of bad press
>>>    > blastwave gets for it's bloat (especially on solaris 9, 10 and
>>>    nevada
>>>    > based systems) out weighs it's usefulness to the marginal fringe who
>>>    > insist on staying on Solaris 8.  Solaris 8 is dead for intensive
>>>    purposes.
>>>    > Yeah, there are folks running Win 3.1 and Win 95 and Win98 and
>>>    Solaris
>>>    > 2.5.1, 2.6 and 7.  so what.
>>>
>>>    It's true that nobody is installing Solaris 8 anymore, but it's still
>>>    widely used and they are not going to be replaced that quickly. I
>>>    don't
>>>    see any reason, why we should drop the support for Solaris 8
>>>
>>>
>>>sorry lots of people are still installing Solaris 8, we are deploying
>>>4 new database servers running oracle, all are running Solaris 8. On
>>>large servers I think the number of Solaris 8 instances are growing
>>>still...
>>>      
>>>
>>You can't even put Solaris 8 on a new large server.  Who are you kidding?
>>    
>>
>
>  I can install Solaris 8 into a V490 just fine.
>  
>
You can't buy a new V490 that runs Solaris 8.



From trygvis at inamo.no  Mon Sep 17 20:47:25 2007
From: trygvis at inamo.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Trygve_Laugst=F8l?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:47:25 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>

Ben Taylor wrote:
> Thiele, Karl D (Karl) wrote:
> 
>> Folks,
>>
>> Oh, I need to weight in here, very much on the side of Anthony.  Well an
>> ls | wc -l of /home shows me 167 solaris 8 blades, these are just in my
>> group. We are one of the biggest customers of Sun. We will be moving
>> most of our Suns to Solaris 10 from 8 within the next 6-12 months only
>> because of hardware upgrades to production. New boxes do not support
>> Solaris 8.
>>
>> All the developers of UNIX based applications, at this company, have now
>> come to rely on Blastwave. Almost everyone runs kde. (do not send us
>> back to CDE, I would have to consider finding a new job).
>>
>> "If it is not broke do not fix it."  So true in business. Some boxes
>> that are not being replaced, will remain solaris 8.
>>
>> You could even freeze off adding new software for Solaris 8, but do not
>> get rid of it. It is just disk space and that is cheap these days.
>>  
>>
> 
> I do not believe I was suggesting that Solaris 8 support be
> discontinued.  My experience with Open Source software is
> that there are substantially fewer "porters" of OSS to Solaris
> than other platforms.  Given that, I think it's a huge waste
> of time to have to jump through hoops to get new code
> working on such an old OS. 

This is the strategy I would like to see Blastwave use.

I think that a more balanced view of effort vs number and quality of 
packages would be nice. If it works on Solaris 8, great, but if it 
doesn't and it is a pain to get going, drop it. Make sure to have a bug 
reporting system where you can see how many people request supporting it 
on an older version too!

[snip]

--
Trygve



From karl.d.thiele at verizonbusiness.com  Mon Sep 17 21:43:39 2007
From: karl.d.thiele at verizonbusiness.com (Thiele, Karl D (Karl))
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:43:39 +0000
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
Message-ID: <36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>


I like Trygve suggestion.   I would not put a lot into supporting Solaris 8. If an update builds there straight out fine, but I would waste time shoe horning to work on Solaris 8.  Just leave some documentation if you want the new things move to .....   But keep the archive of what works now. From what I have been told, the company I am at are paying some big  bucks for Solaris 8 support, it is not a question of having or not having support.

End of my 2 cents..  BTW lot of folks here really appreciate the work Blastwave does, not expressed often enough.

-karl


-----Original Message-----
From: users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.org [mailto:users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.org] On Behalf Of Trygve Laugst?l
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:47 PM
To: questions and discussions
Subject: Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?

Ben Taylor wrote:
> Thiele, Karl D (Karl) wrote:
> 
>> Folks,
>>
>> Oh, I need to weight in here, very much on the side of Anthony.  Well an
>> ls | wc -l of /home shows me 167 solaris 8 blades, these are just in my
>> group. We are one of the biggest customers of Sun. We will be moving
>> most of our Suns to Solaris 10 from 8 within the next 6-12 months only
>> because of hardware upgrades to production. New boxes do not support
>> Solaris 8.
>>
>> All the developers of UNIX based applications, at this company, have now
>> come to rely on Blastwave. Almost everyone runs kde. (do not send us
>> back to CDE, I would have to consider finding a new job).
>>
>> "If it is not broke do not fix it."  So true in business. Some boxes
>> that are not being replaced, will remain solaris 8.
>>
>> You could even freeze off adding new software for Solaris 8, but do not
>> get rid of it. It is just disk space and that is cheap these days.
>>  
>>
> 
> I do not believe I was suggesting that Solaris 8 support be
> discontinued.  My experience with Open Source software is
> that there are substantially fewer "porters" of OSS to Solaris
> than other platforms.  Given that, I think it's a huge waste
> of time to have to jump through hoops to get new code
> working on such an old OS. 

This is the strategy I would like to see Blastwave use.

I think that a more balanced view of effort vs number and quality of 
packages would be nice. If it works on Solaris 8, great, but if it 
doesn't and it is a pain to get going, drop it. Make sure to have a bug 
reporting system where you can see how many people request supporting it 
on an older version too!

[snip]

--
Trygve

_______________________________________________
users mailing list
users at lists.blastwave.org
https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users


From brandorr at opensolaris.org  Mon Sep 17 21:56:18 2007
From: brandorr at opensolaris.org (Brandorr)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 15:56:18 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
Message-ID: <5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>

The thing is, just because you don't use x version of Solaris, doesn't
mean you are in the majority. Dennis has stated that a MAJORITY of
Blastwave download traffic is from machines running Solaris 8. End of
discussion.

>From Sun's website:
Solaris 8 support:
    * Last order date is November 16, 2006
    * Last ship date is February 16, 2007
    * End of service life will be March 31, 2012
    * A grace period until 12/31/2007 lets customers install Solaris 8
on NEW Sun systems they purchased without requiring purchase of a
Right-To-Use (RTU) license.

Personally, I would suggest that Blastwave supports, at a minimum,
Solaris 8 for at least the time that Sun does. That means Solaris 8
support for another 4 years+.

-Brian

On 9/17/07, Thiele, Karl D (Karl) <karl.d.thiele at verizonbusiness.com> wrote:
>
> I like Trygve suggestion.   I would not put a lot into supporting Solaris 8. If an update builds there straight out fine, but I would waste time shoe horning to work on Solaris 8.  Just leave some documentation if you want the new things move to .....   But keep the archive of what works now. From what I have been told, the company I am at are paying some big  bucks for Solaris 8 support, it is not a question of having or not having support.
>
> End of my 2 cents..  BTW lot of folks here really appreciate the work Blastwave does, not expressed often enough.
>
> -karl
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.org [mailto:users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.org] On Behalf Of Trygve Laugst?l
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:47 PM
> To: questions and discussions
> Subject: Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
>
> Ben Taylor wrote:
> > Thiele, Karl D (Karl) wrote:
> >
> >> Folks,
> >>
> >> Oh, I need to weight in here, very much on the side of Anthony.  Well an
> >> ls | wc -l of /home shows me 167 solaris 8 blades, these are just in my
> >> group. We are one of the biggest customers of Sun. We will be moving
> >> most of our Suns to Solaris 10 from 8 within the next 6-12 months only
> >> because of hardware upgrades to production. New boxes do not support
> >> Solaris 8.
> >>
> >> All the developers of UNIX based applications, at this company, have now
> >> come to rely on Blastwave. Almost everyone runs kde. (do not send us
> >> back to CDE, I would have to consider finding a new job).
> >>
> >> "If it is not broke do not fix it."  So true in business. Some boxes
> >> that are not being replaced, will remain solaris 8.
> >>
> >> You could even freeze off adding new software for Solaris 8, but do not
> >> get rid of it. It is just disk space and that is cheap these days.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I do not believe I was suggesting that Solaris 8 support be
> > discontinued.  My experience with Open Source software is
> > that there are substantially fewer "porters" of OSS to Solaris
> > than other platforms.  Given that, I think it's a huge waste
> > of time to have to jump through hoops to get new code
> > working on such an old OS.
>
> This is the strategy I would like to see Blastwave use.
>
> I think that a more balanced view of effort vs number and quality of
> packages would be nice. If it works on Solaris 8, great, but if it
> doesn't and it is a pain to get going, drop it. Make sure to have a bug
> reporting system where you can see how many people request supporting it
> on an older version too!
>
> [snip]
>
> --
> Trygve
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>


-- 
- Brian Gupta

http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nycosug/


From ihsan at blastwave.org  Mon Sep 17 22:24:17 2007
From: ihsan at blastwave.org (Ihsan Dogan)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 22:24:17 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <46EEE271.4040705@blastwave.org>

on 17.09.2007 16:54 Ben Taylor said the following:

> As I pointed out in another discussion, QEMU has to be
> compiled on it's own version, especially if using the KQEMU
> accelerator.  There are specific sets of things that go missing
> or change as we go backwards from Solaris 10.  Jonathan
> Wheeler is dealing with such an issue on libxine, and having
> talked to those developers, they wondered why anyone would
> bother with libxine on such an old platform.

If we would drop the support for Solaris 8, we still have to support
Solaris 9, which is not EOL yet. If we support Solaris 9, then you also
can support 8, because the difference is really not big.

> Hell, blastwave doesn't even have a gcc for x86-64 that can
> compile 64-bit apps.

Have you opened a bug for that?

> I know Solaris 8 is out there. Hell, I know folks still on 2.4 and
> 2.5.1 because the developers left and they are to afraid to
> move it to a newer OS despite binary compatibility.  But let's
> be realistic, you cannot pay Sun (unless you are a big
> customer, with a big install base of Solaris 8) to install it
> anymore.

2.4 is a different case. It's already EOSL. Solaris 8 is not EOSL.



Ihsan

-- 
ihsan at dogan.ch		http://blog.dogan.ch/
			http://ihsan.dogan.ch/


From ihsan at blastwave.org  Mon Sep 17 22:33:50 2007
From: ihsan at blastwave.org (Ihsan Dogan)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 22:33:50 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EE9D8B.8060600@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>	<cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE974A.6080102@Sun.COM>	<50921.72.39.216.186.1190041525.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46EE9D8B.8060600@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <46EEE4AE.7060904@blastwave.org>

on 17.09.2007 17:30 Ben Taylor said the following:

>>> You can't even put Solaris 8 on a new large server.  Who are you kidding?
>>  I can install Solaris 8 into a V490 just fine.
> You can't buy a new V490 that runs Solaris 8.

You can't buy a V490 from Sun anymore, that's true. As long as you are
not UBS you can buy hardware from Sun and you have to stick resellers.
Those companies have still a huge stock with the old hardware.

http://www.abacuscity.ch/abashop?s=456&p=productdetail&sku=30637



Ihsan

-- 
ihsan at dogan.ch		http://blog.dogan.ch/
			http://ihsan.dogan.ch/


From maybird1776 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 17 23:06:46 2007
From: maybird1776 at yahoo.com (ken mays)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:06:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EEE271.4040705@blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <520795.70509.qm@web34202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

1. Blastwave proposed to end the development of
Solaris 8 packages by Q4 of Y2007. This was something
discussed by the maintainers and Dennis Clarke can
further answer that question (i.e. he has the majority
vote). The Solaris 8 CSW repository was to be archived
for snapshot purposes and no longer under primary
support.

2. Solaris 10 will move to primary support on
Blastwave (still pending).

This initiative not only helps developers and
maintainers - but Sun as well. Although many users and
system admins may use Solaris 8 due to mainly older
hardware and software incompatibility issues today
with Solaris 10 - this will become less of an issue as
more admins gain experience with the use of Solaris 8
zones under Solaris 10 and newer hardware is migrated.

Why not Solaris 9?? Well, it is not worth it since
Solaris 9 dropped sun4d and began dropping sun4m
support in later versions. With Solaris 10 being
released, Solaris 9 hardware support concerns were
just "not worth it" in ROI subject areas dealing with
legacy hardware support and desktop support.

>From a true cost model, Blastwave already can support
Soalris 8 wel into the future with its current
stable/unstable repositories with little further
change for the next two years. Continual support
though would only be a costly venture in continual
maintenance and operational overhead.

- Ken Mays




----- Previously on Blastwave CSW-Users...
-------------
 17.09.2007 16:54 Ben Taylor said the following:

> As I pointed out in another discussion, QEMU has to
be
> compiled on it's own version, especially if using
the KQEMU
> accelerator.  There are specific sets of things that
go missing
> or change as we go backwards from Solaris 10. 
Jonathan
> Wheeler is dealing with such an issue on libxine,
and having
> talked to those developers, they wondered why anyone
would
> bother with libxine on such an old platform.

Ihsan Dogan said: If we would drop the support for
Solaris 8, we still have to support
Solaris 9, which is not EOL yet. If we support Solaris
9, then you also
can support 8, because the difference is really not
big.

> Hell, blastwave doesn't even have a gcc for x86-64
that can
> compile 64-bit apps.

Ihsan said: You opened a bug for that?
--------------------


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Luggage? GPS? Comic books? 
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz


From trygvis at inamo.no  Mon Sep 17 23:57:25 2007
From: trygvis at inamo.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Trygve_Laugst=F8l?=)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 23:57:25 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46EEF845.8060804@inamo.no>

Brandorr wrote:
> The thing is, just because you don't use x version of Solaris, doesn't
> mean you are in the majority. Dennis has stated that a MAJORITY of
> Blastwave download traffic is from machines running Solaris 8. End of
> discussion.

The world really isn't that black and white.

Most packages should work just fine on Solaris 8, and that is great. If 
building the packages work fine on 8, there is not reason to support it 
if there are *users* for the package.

The question here is not (to me at least) 8 vs 10, it is about how much 
effort vs how much the users loose. I can also imagine that the packages 
that are hard to build on Solaris 8 are the ones that are multi-media 
related and use features only in newer Solaris releases. Those packages 
are most likely only used by users with modern boxes so I would *guess* 
that supporting on Solaris 10 wouldn't hurt the users that much.

This is where a bug/issue tracking system would help out, to be able to 
find out which packages are popular and on which platforms.

>>From Sun's website:
> Solaris 8 support:
>     * Last order date is November 16, 2006
>     * Last ship date is February 16, 2007
>     * End of service life will be March 31, 2012
>     * A grace period until 12/31/2007 lets customers install Solaris 8
> on NEW Sun systems they purchased without requiring purchase of a
> Right-To-Use (RTU) license.
> 
> Personally, I would suggest that Blastwave supports, at a minimum,
> Solaris 8 for at least the time that Sun does. That means Solaris 8
> support for another 4 years+.

Blastwave should support its users, not Sun. Though they often 
correlate, that is not always the case.

--
Trygve

> -Brian
> 
> On 9/17/07, Thiele, Karl D (Karl) <karl.d.thiele at verizonbusiness.com> wrote:
>> I like Trygve suggestion.   I would not put a lot into supporting Solaris 8. If an update builds there straight out fine, but I would waste time shoe horning to work on Solaris 8.  Just leave some documentation if you want the new things move to .....   But keep the archive of what works now. From what I have been told, the company I am at are paying some big  bucks for Solaris 8 support, it is not a question of having or not having support.
>>
>> End of my 2 cents..  BTW lot of folks here really appreciate the work Blastwave does, not expressed often enough.
>>
>> -karl
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.org [mailto:users-bounces+karl.d.thiele=verizonbusiness.com at lists.blastwave.org] On Behalf Of Trygve Laugst?l
>> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 2:47 PM
>> To: questions and discussions
>> Subject: Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
>>
>> Ben Taylor wrote:
>>> Thiele, Karl D (Karl) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> Oh, I need to weight in here, very much on the side of Anthony.  Well an
>>>> ls | wc -l of /home shows me 167 solaris 8 blades, these are just in my
>>>> group. We are one of the biggest customers of Sun. We will be moving
>>>> most of our Suns to Solaris 10 from 8 within the next 6-12 months only
>>>> because of hardware upgrades to production. New boxes do not support
>>>> Solaris 8.
>>>>
>>>> All the developers of UNIX based applications, at this company, have now
>>>> come to rely on Blastwave. Almost everyone runs kde. (do not send us
>>>> back to CDE, I would have to consider finding a new job).
>>>>
>>>> "If it is not broke do not fix it."  So true in business. Some boxes
>>>> that are not being replaced, will remain solaris 8.
>>>>
>>>> You could even freeze off adding new software for Solaris 8, but do not
>>>> get rid of it. It is just disk space and that is cheap these days.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I do not believe I was suggesting that Solaris 8 support be
>>> discontinued.  My experience with Open Source software is
>>> that there are substantially fewer "porters" of OSS to Solaris
>>> than other platforms.  Given that, I think it's a huge waste
>>> of time to have to jump through hoops to get new code
>>> working on such an old OS.
>> This is the strategy I would like to see Blastwave use.
>>
>> I think that a more balanced view of effort vs number and quality of
>> packages would be nice. If it works on Solaris 8, great, but if it
>> doesn't and it is a pain to get going, drop it. Make sure to have a bug
>> reporting system where you can see how many people request supporting it
>> on an older version too!
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> --
>> Trygve
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> users mailing list
>> users at lists.blastwave.org
>> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>> _______________________________________________
>> users mailing list
>> users at lists.blastwave.org
>> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
> 
> 



From Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM  Tue Sep 18 02:28:49 2007
From: Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM (Ben Taylor)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:28:49 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>

Brandorr wrote:

>The thing is, just because you don't use x version of Solaris, doesn't
>mean you are in the majority. Dennis has stated that a MAJORITY of
>Blastwave download traffic is from machines running Solaris 8. End of
>discussion.
>  
>
Please check with Dennis.  He retracted his comments to me.
Personally, I'd like to see all the archives information so we
can stop this discussion.  I don't care if Solaris 8 is the majority
or not.  If it is, so be it.  If it isn't, and is a substantial minority,
I suggest no additional effort be put into porting OSS code on
Solaris 8 if it *doesn't compile correctly out of the box* the first
time.

Since stuff is supposed to be put in the GAR, if someone really
wants to help, then they can make the appropriate changes
to the Garball for that package and submit it for inclusion.

>>From Sun's website:
>Solaris 8 support:
>    * Last order date is November 16, 2006
>    * Last ship date is February 16, 2007
>    * End of service life will be March 31, 2012
>    * A grace period until 12/31/2007 lets customers install Solaris 8
>on NEW Sun systems they purchased without requiring purchase of a
>Right-To-Use (RTU) license.
>
>Personally, I would suggest that Blastwave supports, at a minimum,
>Solaris 8 for at least the time that Sun does. That means Solaris 8
>support for another 4 years+
>  
>
Ridiculous.  Lots of wasted effort for a minority too scared, cheap,
lazy, bothered, or skilled to move off an obsolete platform.  I
don't care if the archives are still available, but I wouldn't waste
one more second on code that doestn't just work on Solaris 8.

But if this albatross is gonna hang around Blastwave's neck,
I got better things to do with my time.

The rest of the OSS community is really not interested in having
their software ported to an OS that is not even going to be shipping
in 2 months.  I've been down that path before. 

Ben


From iand at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 18 02:44:00 2007
From: iand at blastwave.org (Ian Dickinson)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 01:44:00 +0100
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EEF845.8060804@inamo.no>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EEF845.8060804@inamo.no>
Message-ID: <46EF1F50.4060209@blastwave.org>

Trygve Laugst?l wrote:
> Blastwave should support its users, not Sun. Though they often 
> correlate, that is not always the case.

Here, here!

Most blastwave packages are not a major issue to compile/support for Solaris
8, and most app maintainers are happy to accept well-formed patches in support
of that.  pkg-get can cope with the few exceptions if need be.

So what's the issue here?  Should we drop support for Solaris 8 because the
existing packages work on Solaris 8, 9 *and* 10?  "Not yet" is the answer I see.

Ian


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Tue Sep 18 05:37:08 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 23:37:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Blastwave from Solaris 8 to Solaris 10
Message-ID: <52297.72.39.216.186.1190086628.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>



---------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Blastwave from Solaris 8 to Solaris 10
From:    "Dennis Clarke" <dclarke at blastwave.org>
Date:    Mon, September 17, 2007 23:17
---------------------------------------------------------

> [ from Ken Mays ]
> 1. Blastwave proposed to end the development of
> Solaris 8 packages by Q4 of Y2007. This was something
> discussed by the maintainers and Dennis Clarke can
> further answer that question (i.e. he has the majority
> vote). The Solaris 8 CSW repository was to be archived
> for snapshot purposes and no longer under primary
> support.

Ref : Solaris Operating System Life Cycle
      http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/lifecycle.xml

    : Blastwave Sparc Solaris 8 installs from one mirror site
      http://www.blastwave.org/images/Solaris_8_Sparc_usage_06-07.png

  We are now well past Last Ship Date for Solaris 8 and I can report
  some significant drops in Solaris 8 users since then. The Solaris 8
  x86 users are virtually nonexistent and I would go so far as to say
  that the only users left on the planet are in the Blastwave project.

  However, anything compiled on Solaris 8 regardless of architecture
  will run as expected on Solaris 9 or 10. That is a convenient truth
  that we live with.

  When a user compiles an application on Solaris 8 x86 they are not
  necessarily working without cause nor are they somehow lacking
  common sense.  They are working on an operating system that complies
  with strict standards and it is a UNIX(tm) system.  Once the
  application works we can be assured that it will also work on both
  Solaris 9 and Solaris 10.

  Reality has shown us that a lot of organizations, for policy reasons,
  will not move from Solaris 8.  If we attempt to force these users
  away from Solaris 8, via abandonment, then we risk that they will
  gravitate towards Linux where they *perceive* that they can get
  everything that they need.  We do not need to feed that process.

  Our primary concern is that Blastwave releases many packages that
  are duplications on Solaris 10 and even on Solaris 9.  This concern
  is quite real and it has led to a condition known as "Blastwave
  bloat". A simple install of vim or apache can lead to many hundreds
  of software packages being downloaded and installed. Many of those
  packages are outright duplications on Solaris 10. In our defense I
  would say they are version upgrades to libraries and software found
  in Solaris 10 that otherwise would not get updated.  We need to
  create a software tree that stands on its own and can be updated
  continually without any impact on the core OS. This is a key
  Blastwave feature; software isolation and ease of update.

  Solaris users want and need access to reasonable open source
  software and they have very few options outside of Blastwave.
  These are things that Linux users take for granted and have done
  so for years.   The reality is that we want Solaris reliability
  and durability along with Linux utility.  The most recent
  production release of Solaris 10 8/07 includes a Companion CD
  which contains only 110+ software titles and many are terribly out
  of date.  More important to the market is the fact that these
  software titles are not supported, not updated and only available
  via arcane download processes.

      So we are left with a few options.

  One option that we have on the table is to simply ignore the facts
  in a shifting market.  This is hardly reasonable.  Blastwave was
  created because we, Solaris users, need to create and freely provide
  software one to another.  We have a need and we work together in order
  to ensure that any Solaris user may have access to a wide array of
  open source software options.  My founding dream was to assure the
  Solaris market that open source software would always be freely
  available to them and that it would be maintained and kept up to date.
  It would be current. Most important is that it would be reasonable
  for their needs.  Blastwave started with the best Solaris version
  at the time and that was Solaris 8.  Times have changed and thus, so
  must we.

  The current Solaris market is dominated by Solaris 10.  This is
  a numerical fact.  By the end of 2007 we will be in a safe position
  to make a final snapshot of the Solaris 8 software tree and leave
  it available.  The software packages being built at Blastwave from
  that point onwards should be done with the best Solaris at the time.
  That would be the most recent release of Solaris 10.  The Blastwave
  team will draw up an action plan which triggers a version migration
  by January 1st 2008.

  Blastwave has done an excellent job of building software for the
  Solaris market.  To continue as leaders we now need to look closely
  at Solaris 10 and I ask that we discuss viable plans.

  I want to thank everyone for their incredible work and support over
  the past five years.

Dennis Clarke



From Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM  Tue Sep 18 10:27:09 2007
From: Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM (Ben Taylor)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 04:27:09 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46EEE4AE.7060904@blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM> <46ED766A.9070409@blastwave.org>
	<cd09bdd10709170407m4a3c90a7n3ff0edc3f3ee73b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE974A.6080102@Sun.COM>
	<50921.72.39.216.186.1190041525.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46EE9D8B.8060600@Sun.COM> <46EEE4AE.7060904@blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46EF8BDD.6020907@Sun.COM>

Ihsan Dogan wrote:

>on 17.09.2007 17:30 Ben Taylor said the following:
>
>  
>
>>>>You can't even put Solaris 8 on a new large server.  Who are you kidding?
>>>>        
>>>>
>>> I can install Solaris 8 into a V490 just fine.
>>>      
>>>
>>You can't buy a new V490 that runs Solaris 8.
>>    
>>
>
>You can't buy a V490 from Sun anymore, that's true. As long as you are
>not UBS you can buy hardware from Sun and you have to stick resellers.
>Those companies have still a huge stock with the old hardware.
>
>http://www.abacuscity.ch/abashop?s=456&p=productdetail&sku=30637
>
>  
>
You cannot run Solaris 8 on any US-IV or US-IV+ CPU.

At minimum, you have to run Solaris 9 09/05.  One of my
customers had to upgrade to a new USIV+ board almost
a year ago and had to suffer through an OS upgrade
because the requirements of the for the system board
from an US-III to the US-IV+.  Unfortunately for them,
their botique firm that has their business process sw
hasn't certified Solaris 10, and may never due to the
fact that they are a botique shop and only have 1 Solaris
box inhouse.


From jreid at vnet.net  Tue Sep 18 18:52:08 2007
From: jreid at vnet.net (Joe Reid)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:52:08 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] Blastwave from Solaris 8 to Solaris 10
In-Reply-To: <52297.72.39.216.186.1190086628.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <52297.72.39.216.186.1190086628.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F00238.6060309@vnet.net>

Dennis Clarke wrote:

>   I want to thank everyone for their incredible work and support over
>   the past five years.

Ditto to this sentiment.

--
Joe Reid
jreid at vnet.net


From brandorr at opensolaris.org  Tue Sep 18 20:07:28 2007
From: brandorr at opensolaris.org (Brandorr)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 14:07:28 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Blastwave from Solaris 8 to Solaris 10
In-Reply-To: <52297.72.39.216.186.1190086628.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <52297.72.39.216.186.1190086628.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <5b5090780709181107w2b8d4ce9lb76e110825cb49cc@mail.gmail.com>

Dennis what resources would be freed up, if you were to drop support
for the S8 tree.

I am trying to understand what the resource costs would be to have two
trees? From the build farm to the number of man hours per week (that
would be required)..

I think it is a mistake to kill S8/Sparc development. There are many
commercial packages that have either only recently certified on S10,
are not yet certified for S10, or aren't yet certifying for S10 x86.
(In many cases we are waiting for ISVs to port to x86 before upgrading
an existing SOlaris 8 Sparc system to S10). In addition many Sun
customers never moved to S9, because it wasn't compelling.

(Basically for us Solaris 10's killer app, was x86 support.)

That all said, we don't use Blastwave in our Enterprise, but I don't
think you should stop updating the tree.

-Brian

On 9/17/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Subject: Blastwave from Solaris 8 to Solaris 10
> From:    "Dennis Clarke" <dclarke at blastwave.org>
> Date:    Mon, September 17, 2007 23:17
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> > [ from Ken Mays ]
> > 1. Blastwave proposed to end the development of
> > Solaris 8 packages by Q4 of Y2007. This was something
> > discussed by the maintainers and Dennis Clarke can
> > further answer that question (i.e. he has the majority
> > vote). The Solaris 8 CSW repository was to be archived
> > for snapshot purposes and no longer under primary
> > support.
>
> Ref : Solaris Operating System Life Cycle
>       http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/lifecycle.xml
>
>     : Blastwave Sparc Solaris 8 installs from one mirror site
>       http://www.blastwave.org/images/Solaris_8_Sparc_usage_06-07.png
>
>   We are now well past Last Ship Date for Solaris 8 and I can report
>   some significant drops in Solaris 8 users since then. The Solaris 8
>   x86 users are virtually nonexistent and I would go so far as to say
>   that the only users left on the planet are in the Blastwave project.
>
>   However, anything compiled on Solaris 8 regardless of architecture
>   will run as expected on Solaris 9 or 10. That is a convenient truth
>   that we live with.
>
>   When a user compiles an application on Solaris 8 x86 they are not
>   necessarily working without cause nor are they somehow lacking
>   common sense.  They are working on an operating system that complies
>   with strict standards and it is a UNIX(tm) system.  Once the
>   application works we can be assured that it will also work on both
>   Solaris 9 and Solaris 10.
>
>   Reality has shown us that a lot of organizations, for policy reasons,
>   will not move from Solaris 8.  If we attempt to force these users
>   away from Solaris 8, via abandonment, then we risk that they will
>   gravitate towards Linux where they *perceive* that they can get
>   everything that they need.  We do not need to feed that process.
>
>   Our primary concern is that Blastwave releases many packages that
>   are duplications on Solaris 10 and even on Solaris 9.  This concern
>   is quite real and it has led to a condition known as "Blastwave
>   bloat". A simple install of vim or apache can lead to many hundreds
>   of software packages being downloaded and installed. Many of those
>   packages are outright duplications on Solaris 10. In our defense I
>   would say they are version upgrades to libraries and software found
>   in Solaris 10 that otherwise would not get updated.  We need to
>   create a software tree that stands on its own and can be updated
>   continually without any impact on the core OS. This is a key
>   Blastwave feature; software isolation and ease of update.
>
>   Solaris users want and need access to reasonable open source
>   software and they have very few options outside of Blastwave.
>   These are things that Linux users take for granted and have done
>   so for years.   The reality is that we want Solaris reliability
>   and durability along with Linux utility.  The most recent
>   production release of Solaris 10 8/07 includes a Companion CD
>   which contains only 110+ software titles and many are terribly out
>   of date.  More important to the market is the fact that these
>   software titles are not supported, not updated and only available
>   via arcane download processes.
>
>       So we are left with a few options.
>
>   One option that we have on the table is to simply ignore the facts
>   in a shifting market.  This is hardly reasonable.  Blastwave was
>   created because we, Solaris users, need to create and freely provide
>   software one to another.  We have a need and we work together in order
>   to ensure that any Solaris user may have access to a wide array of
>   open source software options.  My founding dream was to assure the
>   Solaris market that open source software would always be freely
>   available to them and that it would be maintained and kept up to date.
>   It would be current. Most important is that it would be reasonable
>   for their needs.  Blastwave started with the best Solaris version
>   at the time and that was Solaris 8.  Times have changed and thus, so
>   must we.
>
>   The current Solaris market is dominated by Solaris 10.  This is
>   a numerical fact.  By the end of 2007 we will be in a safe position
>   to make a final snapshot of the Solaris 8 software tree and leave
>   it available.  The software packages being built at Blastwave from
>   that point onwards should be done with the best Solaris at the time.
>   That would be the most recent release of Solaris 10.  The Blastwave
>   team will draw up an action plan which triggers a version migration
>   by January 1st 2008.
>
>   Blastwave has done an excellent job of building software for the
>   Solaris market.  To continue as leaders we now need to look closely
>   at Solaris 10 and I ask that we discuss viable plans.
>
>   I want to thank everyone for their incredible work and support over
>   the past five years.
>
> Dennis Clarke
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>


-- 
- Brian Gupta

http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nycosug/


From james at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 10:49:55 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 08:49:55 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 18/09/07, 01:28:49, Ben Taylor <Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM> wrote regarding Re:
[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> >Personally, I would suggest that Blastwave supports, at a minimum,
> >Solaris 8 for at least the time that Sun does. That means Solaris 8
> >support for another 4 years+
> >
> >
> Ridiculous.  Lots of wasted effort for a minority too scared, cheap,
> lazy, bothered, or skilled to move off an obsolete platform.

Thank you for your vote of confidence in my ability.  Let me guess,
you don't work in the Public Relations Department of Sun.



> But if this albatross is gonna hang around Blastwave's neck,
> I got better things to do with my time.

Please go and do them.  You are not being stopped, Blastwave is
neither a mandatory nor an exclusive system.




James.


From magrawal at coba.usf.edu  Wed Sep 19 14:59:42 2007
From: magrawal at coba.usf.edu (Manish Agrawal)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 08:59:42 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] vimtutor bad trap problem when /opt/csw/bin not in $PATH
Message-ID: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>

When /opt/csw/bin is not in the path, vimtutor does not run. This is a problem because I am using Solaris zones in a classroom environment to teach some basic system administration (including introduction to vi) and to give students the opportunity to implement some UNIX STIG controls. There is one zone per student, and I don't want to modify the default /etc/default/login during zone creation using zonemgr (I want students to go in and do it themselves if they like). Requiring students to first edit /etc/default/login, logout, and log back in, seems to be an unnecessary hurdle.

Is it possible to modify vimtutor so that it works with the default paths.

Thanks
Manish

-bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor
/opt/csw/bin/vimtutor: trap: bad trap
vi: illegal option -- u
Usage: vi [- | -s] [-l] [-L] [-wn] [-R] [-S] [-r [file]] [-t tag]
[-v] [-V] [-x] [-C] [+cmd | -c cmd] file...
vi: illegal option -- u
Usage: vi [- | -s] [-l] [-L] [-wn] [-R] [-S] [-r [file]] [-t tag]
[-v] [-V] [-x] [-C] [+cmd | -c cmd] file...

-bash-3.00$ echo $PATH
/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:

-bash-3.00$ uname -a
SunOS dcomsm1 5.10 Generic_118833-33 sun4v sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-T200

-bash-3.00# zonemgr -a list
   ID NAME             STATUS         PATH
    0 global           running        /
    1 vexavier         running        /export/zones/vexavier
    2 afreickm         running        /export/zones/afreickm
    3 tzharp           running        /export/zones/tzharp
    5 misma            running        /export/zones/misma
    6 cjjohnso         running        /export/zones/cjjohnso
    7 pwburke          running        /export/zones/pwburke
    8 jpcarson         running        /export/zones/jpcarson
    9 dcomsm1          running        /export/zones/dcomsm1
   11 tapostle         running        /export/zones/tapostle
   12 mkording         running        /export/zones/mkording
   13 adontams         running        /export/zones/adontams
   14 dlogsdon         running        /export/zones/dlogsdon
   15 tlotzke          running        /export/zones/tlotzke
   16 svmehta          running        /export/zones/svmehta
   18 smoline          running        /export/zones/smoline
   19 cnolet           running        /export/zones/cnolet
   20 jparappa         running        /export/zones/jparappa
   21 aramin           running        /export/zones/aramin
   22 trosenga         running        /export/zones/trosenga
   23 bschwegm         running        /export/zones/bschwegm
   24 mweibley         running        /export/zones/mweibley
   25 fdwillia         running        /export/zones/fdwillia
   26 chisseri         running        /export/zones/chisseri
   27 cdafnis          running        /export/zones/cdafnis
   28 cmillsap         running        /export/zones/cmillsap

-bash-3.00$ pkginfo -l CSWvim
    PKGINST:  CSWvim
       NAME:  vim - Vi IMproved
   CATEGORY:  application
       ARCH:  sparc
    VERSION:  7.0.109,REV=2006.09.18
    BASEDIR:  /
     VENDOR:  ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim/unix/ packaged for CSW by Cory Omand
     PSTAMP:  comand at ra-20060918154023
   INSTDATE:  Sep 18 2007 16:25
    HOTLINE:  http://www.blastwave.org/bugtrack/
      EMAIL:  comand at blastwave.org
     STATUS:  completely installed
      FILES:        7 installed pathnames
                    1 shared pathnames
                    1 directories
                    2 executables
                 5270 blocks used (approx)


From a.cervellin at acm.org  Wed Sep 19 15:06:53 2007
From: a.cervellin at acm.org (Alessio)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:06:53 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] vimtutor bad trap problem when /opt/csw/bin not in
 $PATH
In-Reply-To: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
References: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>

can't you do a workaround like this:
#mv /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor.orig
#vi /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor
  #!/bin/bash
  PATH=/opt/csw/bin:$PATH
  vimtutor
:wq!
#chmod +x /opt/csw/vimtutor

now everyone should be able to run vimtutor

Manish Agrawal wrote:
> When /opt/csw/bin is not in the path, vimtutor does not run. This is a problem because I am using Solaris zones in a classroom environment to teach some basic system administration (including introduction to vi) and to give students the opportunity to implement some UNIX STIG controls. There is one zone per student, and I don't want to modify the default /etc/default/login during zone creation using zonemgr (I want students to go in and do it themselves if they like). Requiring students to first edit /etc/default/login, logout, and log back in, seems to be an unnecessary hurdle.
> 
> Is it possible to modify vimtutor so that it works with the default paths.
> 
> Thanks
> Manish
> 
> -bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor
> /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor: trap: bad trap
> vi: illegal option -- u
> Usage: vi [- | -s] [-l] [-L] [-wn] [-R] [-S] [-r [file]] [-t tag]
> [-v] [-V] [-x] [-C] [+cmd | -c cmd] file...
> vi: illegal option -- u
> Usage: vi [- | -s] [-l] [-L] [-wn] [-R] [-S] [-r [file]] [-t tag]
> [-v] [-V] [-x] [-C] [+cmd | -c cmd] file...
> 
> -bash-3.00$ echo $PATH
> /usr/sbin:/usr/bin:
> 
> -bash-3.00$ uname -a
> SunOS dcomsm1 5.10 Generic_118833-33 sun4v sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-T200
> 
> -bash-3.00# zonemgr -a list
>    ID NAME             STATUS         PATH
>     0 global           running        /
>     1 vexavier         running        /export/zones/vexavier
>     2 afreickm         running        /export/zones/afreickm
>     3 tzharp           running        /export/zones/tzharp
>     5 misma            running        /export/zones/misma
>     6 cjjohnso         running        /export/zones/cjjohnso
>     7 pwburke          running        /export/zones/pwburke
>     8 jpcarson         running        /export/zones/jpcarson
>     9 dcomsm1          running        /export/zones/dcomsm1
>    11 tapostle         running        /export/zones/tapostle
>    12 mkording         running        /export/zones/mkording
>    13 adontams         running        /export/zones/adontams
>    14 dlogsdon         running        /export/zones/dlogsdon
>    15 tlotzke          running        /export/zones/tlotzke
>    16 svmehta          running        /export/zones/svmehta
>    18 smoline          running        /export/zones/smoline
>    19 cnolet           running        /export/zones/cnolet
>    20 jparappa         running        /export/zones/jparappa
>    21 aramin           running        /export/zones/aramin
>    22 trosenga         running        /export/zones/trosenga
>    23 bschwegm         running        /export/zones/bschwegm
>    24 mweibley         running        /export/zones/mweibley
>    25 fdwillia         running        /export/zones/fdwillia
>    26 chisseri         running        /export/zones/chisseri
>    27 cdafnis          running        /export/zones/cdafnis
>    28 cmillsap         running        /export/zones/cmillsap
> 
> -bash-3.00$ pkginfo -l CSWvim
>     PKGINST:  CSWvim
>        NAME:  vim - Vi IMproved
>    CATEGORY:  application
>        ARCH:  sparc
>     VERSION:  7.0.109,REV=2006.09.18
>     BASEDIR:  /
>      VENDOR:  ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim/unix/ packaged for CSW by Cory Omand
>      PSTAMP:  comand at ra-20060918154023
>    INSTDATE:  Sep 18 2007 16:25
>     HOTLINE:  http://www.blastwave.org/bugtrack/
>       EMAIL:  comand at blastwave.org
>      STATUS:  completely installed
>       FILES:        7 installed pathnames
>                     1 shared pathnames
>                     1 directories
>                     2 executables
>                  5270 blocks used (approx)
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> 


From a.cervellin at acm.org  Wed Sep 19 15:10:44 2007
From: a.cervellin at acm.org (Alessio)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:10:44 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] vimtutor bad trap problem when /opt/csw/bin not in
 $PATH
In-Reply-To: <46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>
References: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
	<46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>
Message-ID: <46F11FD4.8080705@acm.org>

Alessio wrote:

> #vi /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor
>   #!/bin/bash
>   PATH=/opt/csw/bin:$PATH
>   vimtutor

there's a typo in this line, i meant vimtutor.orig


From magrawal at coba.usf.edu  Wed Sep 19 15:19:50 2007
From: magrawal at coba.usf.edu (Manish Agrawal)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:19:50 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] vimtutor bad trap problem when /opt/csw/bin not in
	$PATH
In-Reply-To: <46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>
References: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
	<46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>
Message-ID: <op.tywkncjez3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>

Thanks very much, there are some problems:

1. Every student will have to do this hack in their own respective zones. They are all newbies. Since they don't know vi, how are they going to write this script in the first place? Yesterday, we all used /opt/csw/bin/pkg-get install nano to get an editor available.

2. What is the point of having vimtutor in the first place if it does not work with the default paths? Isn't vimtutor for newbies?

3. What are fresh users going to think of Solaris and vim if they have to first do this hack before they can use a tutorial meant for newbies?

The best solution for me is to copy /etc/default/login from the global zone while creating the zone using zonemgr, but I don't want to do it and would prefer vimtutor to just work out of the box with the Solaris defaults.

Thanks
Manish

P.S.: In the third line of your script, you really mean /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor.orig, don't you ?

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:06:53 -0400, Alessio <a.cervellin at acm.org> wrote:

> can't you do a workaround like this:
> #mv /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor.orig
> #vi /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor
>   #!/bin/bash
>   PATH=/opt/csw/bin:$PATH
>   vimtutor
> :wq!
> #chmod +x /opt/csw/vimtutor
>
> now everyone should be able to run vimtutor
>
> Manish Agrawal wrote:
>> When /opt/csw/bin is not in the path, vimtutor does not run. This is a problem because I am using Solaris zones in a classroom environment to teach some basic system administration (including introduction to vi) and to give students the opportunity to implement some UNIX STIG controls. There is one zone per student, and I don't want to modify the default /etc/default/login during zone creation using zonemgr (I want students to go in and do it themselves if they like). Requiring students to first edit /etc/default/login, logout, and log back in, seems to be an unnecessary hurdle.
>>
>> Is it possible to modify vimtutor so that it works with the default paths.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Manish
>>
>> -bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor
>> /opt/csw/bin/vimtutor: trap: bad trap
>> vi: illegal option -- u
>> Usage: vi [- | -s] [-l] [-L] [-wn] [-R] [-S] [-r [file]] [-t tag]
>> [-v] [-V] [-x] [-C] [+cmd | -c cmd] file...
>> vi: illegal option -- u
>> Usage: vi [- | -s] [-l] [-L] [-wn] [-R] [-S] [-r [file]] [-t tag]
>> [-v] [-V] [-x] [-C] [+cmd | -c cmd] file...
>>
>> -bash-3.00$ echo $PATH
>> /usr/sbin:/usr/bin:
>>
>> -bash-3.00$ uname -a
>> SunOS dcomsm1 5.10 Generic_118833-33 sun4v sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-T200
>>
>> -bash-3.00# zonemgr -a list
>>    ID NAME             STATUS         PATH
>>     0 global           running        /
>>     1 vexavier         running        /export/zones/vexavier
>>     2 afreickm         running        /export/zones/afreickm
>>     3 tzharp           running        /export/zones/tzharp
>>     5 misma            running        /export/zones/misma
>>     6 cjjohnso         running        /export/zones/cjjohnso
>>     7 pwburke          running        /export/zones/pwburke
>>     8 jpcarson         running        /export/zones/jpcarson
>>     9 dcomsm1          running        /export/zones/dcomsm1
>>    11 tapostle         running        /export/zones/tapostle
>>    12 mkording         running        /export/zones/mkording
>>    13 adontams         running        /export/zones/adontams
>>    14 dlogsdon         running        /export/zones/dlogsdon
>>    15 tlotzke          running        /export/zones/tlotzke
>>    16 svmehta          running        /export/zones/svmehta
>>    18 smoline          running        /export/zones/smoline
>>    19 cnolet           running        /export/zones/cnolet
>>    20 jparappa         running        /export/zones/jparappa
>>    21 aramin           running        /export/zones/aramin
>>    22 trosenga         running        /export/zones/trosenga
>>    23 bschwegm         running        /export/zones/bschwegm
>>    24 mweibley         running        /export/zones/mweibley
>>    25 fdwillia         running        /export/zones/fdwillia
>>    26 chisseri         running        /export/zones/chisseri
>>    27 cdafnis          running        /export/zones/cdafnis
>>    28 cmillsap         running        /export/zones/cmillsap
>>
>> -bash-3.00$ pkginfo -l CSWvim
>>     PKGINST:  CSWvim
>>        NAME:  vim - Vi IMproved
>>    CATEGORY:  application
>>        ARCH:  sparc
>>     VERSION:  7.0.109,REV=2006.09.18
>>     BASEDIR:  /
>>      VENDOR:  ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim/unix/ packaged for CSW by Cory Omand
>>      PSTAMP:  comand at ra-20060918154023
>>    INSTDATE:  Sep 18 2007 16:25
>>     HOTLINE:  http://www.blastwave.org/bugtrack/
>>       EMAIL:  comand at blastwave.org
>>      STATUS:  completely installed
>>       FILES:        7 installed pathnames
>>                     1 shared pathnames
>>                     1 directories
>>                     2 executables
>>                  5270 blocks used (approx)
>> _______________________________________________
>> users mailing list
>> users at lists.blastwave.org
>> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>



-- 
Manish Agrawal
Asstt. Prof., Dept. of ISDS, Univ. of South Florida
4202 E. Fowler Ave., CIS 1040, Tampa, Fl 33620 - 7800, U.S.A.
(813)-974-6716 (W) 974-6749 (FAX) magrawal at coba.usf.edu
http://coba.usf.edu/departments/isds/faculty/agrawal/index.html
--


From J.Langner at fzd.de  Wed Sep 19 15:27:58 2007
From: J.Langner at fzd.de (Jens Langner)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:27:58 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] vimtutor bad trap problem when /opt/csw/bin not in
 $PATH
In-Reply-To: <op.tywkncjez3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
References: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>	<46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>
	<op.tywkncjez3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <46F123DE.3000503@fzd.de>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Manish Agrawal schrieb:
> Thanks very much, there are some problems:
> 
> 1. Every student will have to do this hack in their own respective zones. They are all newbies. Since they don't know vi, how are they going to write this script in the first place? Yesterday, we all used /opt/csw/bin/pkg-get install nano to get an editor available.
> 
> 2. What is the point of having vimtutor in the first place if it does not work with the default paths? Isn't vimtutor for newbies?
> 
> 3. What are fresh users going to think of Solaris and vim if they have to first do this hack before they can use a tutorial meant for newbies?
> 
> The best solution for me is to copy /etc/default/login from the global zone while creating the zone using zonemgr, but I don't want to do it and would prefer vimtutor to just work out of the box with the Solaris defaults.

You are anyway using blastwave and vim which isn't a solaris default. I
really can't see why it hurts to automatically copy your own
/etc/default/login to all zones as soon as you create them.

cheers,
jens
- --
Jens Langner                                         Ph: +49-351-2602757
Forschungszentrum Dresden-Rossendorf e.V.
Institute of Radiopharmacy - PET Center                 J.Langner at fzd.de
Germany                                               http://www.fzd.de/
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From ben.taylor at sun.com  Wed Sep 19 15:43:08 2007
From: ben.taylor at sun.com (Ben Taylor)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:43:08 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>

James Lee wrote:

>On 18/09/07, 01:28:49, Ben Taylor <Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM> wrote regarding Re:
>[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>  
>
>>>Personally, I would suggest that Blastwave supports, at a minimum,
>>>Solaris 8 for at least the time that Sun does. That means Solaris 8
>>>support for another 4 years+
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Ridiculous.  Lots of wasted effort for a minority too scared, cheap,
>>lazy, bothered, or skilled to move off an obsolete platform.
>>    
>>
>
>Thank you for your vote of confidence in my ability.  
>
There's no vote of confidence in your ability there.  Unless you
are the decision maker keeping on Solaris 8.  I am well aware
that CIO's and other management types are risk adverse, and
SA's have to toe the company line regardless of the age of
a technology.  There's a difference.   But to not plan a migration
off Solaris 8 to Solaris 10 after 10 has been out for almost
3 years and has amazing features, and it appears you are running
an app that has support in 10, all I can say is, if the shoe fits....

>Let me guess,
>you don't work in the Public Relations Department of Sun.
>  
>

I'm pointing out that it's time to stop putting any *more* effort
into porting code to Solaris 8.   

But I'm willing to let the minority keep the bloat factor high
just to support thier little patch. 


From shuttlebox at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 15:46:54 2007
From: shuttlebox at gmail.com (shuttlebox)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:46:54 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/19/07, Ben Taylor <ben.taylor at sun.com> wrote:
> But I'm willing to let the minority keep the bloat factor high
> just to support thier little patch.

What is the bloat you and others have mentioned?

-- 
/peter


From Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM  Wed Sep 19 16:04:04 2007
From: Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM (Ben Taylor)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:04:04 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>

shuttlebox wrote:

>On 9/19/07, Ben Taylor <ben.taylor at sun.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>But I'm willing to let the minority keep the bloat factor high
>>just to support thier little patch.
>>    
>>
>
>What is the bloat you and others have mentioned?
>
>  
>
The bloat is the duplication of packages in blastwave that
are in Solaris, especially as you move from 8 to 9 to 10 to
11 (nevada).

So if you want to run the latest gnome on SOlaris 10 from
blastwave, you will likely have almost the entire Gnome tree
duplicated.  I understand that it is important to have a separate
tool chain not dependent on Sun.  However, what turns out is
minimal bloat on Solaris 8 turns into maximum bloat on Solaris 10.

Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
go get more to resolve dependencies.

In a better version of blastwave, the check for dependencies
would happen before downloading the first package.  In a standalone
environment, the existing model could be used.




From shuttlebox at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 16:25:34 2007
From: shuttlebox at gmail.com (shuttlebox)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:25:34 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/19/07, Ben Taylor <Ben.Taylor at sun.com> wrote:
> The bloat is the duplication of packages in blastwave that
> are in Solaris, especially as you move from 8 to 9 to 10 to
> 11 (nevada).

But Suns packages are often not the latest even at release and then
they will normally just get security fixes and no version upgrades
which bring new features. As you said, Solaris 10 is almost 3 years
old now and many want to use fresher versions of bash, perl, Gnome or
whatever.

It's up to the user/admin to remove Suns packages if the bloat is a
problem which it might be due to the extremely annoying patch process.
How would it be better for users if Blastwave didn't offer the
"bloat", if they roll their own packages or just compile it into /opt
or /usr/local they will still end up with bloat unless they remove the
obsolete versions which belong to Sun, not Blastwave? I think the
question is - who offers the bloat, Sun or Blastwave? To you, it's
Blastwave since they are installed later but to me it's Sun because
they bring what I don't want to/can't use.

If you rely heavily on Blastwave packages maybe you could install a
smaller cluster of Solaris to reduce the bloat from the start?

> Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
> to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
> dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
> be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
> go get more to resolve dependencies.
>
> In a better version of blastwave, the check for dependencies
> would happen before downloading the first package.  In a standalone
> environment, the existing model could be used.

Well, at least Blastwave handles dependencies in an automatic fashion
instead of just barfing. ;-) I agree though, that it would be nice if
both pkg-get and the web site optionally could list ALL dependencies
for a package.

-- 
/peter


From james at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 16:34:53 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:34:53 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <20070919.14345300.3824529460@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 19/09/07, 15:04:04, Ben Taylor <Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM> wrote regarding Re: 
[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> >What is the bloat you and others have mentioned?
> >
> >
> >
> The bloat is the duplication of packages in blastwave that
> are in Solaris, especially as you move from 8 to 9 to 10 to
> 11 (nevada).

These would exist regardless of Solaris 8 because the Solaris
10 libs are not current.


> Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
> to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
> dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
> be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
> go get more to resolve dependencies.

This is not a Solaris 8 issue.




James.


From james at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 16:34:56 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 14:34:56 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<20070912.9170000.2485077298@capetown.asd.demon.co.uk>
	<46EB001E.3020701@Sun.COM>
	<20070916.8411800.671853280@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <20070919.14345600.4170788221@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 19/09/07, 14:43:08, Ben Taylor <ben.taylor at sun.com> wrote regarding Re:
[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> >>Ridiculous.  Lots of wasted effort for a minority too scared, cheap,
> >>lazy, bothered, or skilled to move off an obsolete platform.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Thank you for your vote of confidence in my ability.
> >
> There's no vote of confidence in your ability there.

Indeed, clearly my statement lost all meaning in translation.


>  Unless you
> are the decision maker keeping on Solaris 8.  I am well aware
> that CIO's and other management types are risk adverse, and
> SA's have to toe the company line regardless of the age of
> a technology.  There's a difference.   But to not plan a migration
> off Solaris 8 to Solaris 10 after 10 has been out for almost
> 3 years and has amazing features, and it appears you are running
> an app that has support in 10, all I can say is, if the shoe fits....

3 years is not a long time (maybe it is to the "kids"), consider
machines have uptimes of perhaps more than a year.  Solaris 10 has
amazing features but so what?  What if I don't need them.  I have
no compelling reason to spend time/money updating a system to an
OS that provides the same (used) functionality.




James.


From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 16:40:00 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:40:00 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 04:49, James Lee wrote:

> > Ridiculous.  Lots of wasted effort for a minority too scared,
> > cheap, lazy, bothered, or skilled to move off an obsolete
> > platform.
>
> Thank you for your vote of confidence in my ability.  Let me guess,
> you don't work in the Public Relations Department of Sun.

No, he doesn't. If you want to talk to someone in the PR Department at 
Sun, why don't you give them a call and chat them up.

Here's the hard truth about your current abilities insofar as Solaris 
10 is concerned (i don't work in the Public Relations Department at 
Sun either):

If you were a MS Windows shop, you would be developing on Windows 
2000. If you were a Mac shop, you would be developing on Mac OS 9.

In either case, at this point in time your company would be out of 
business, and you would be out of a job, with zero prospects of 
finding a new job, because your skills and domain knowledge are 7 
years out of date.

--Stefan

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From stephan.windmueller at cs.uni-dortmund.de  Wed Sep 19 17:32:00 2007
From: stephan.windmueller at cs.uni-dortmund.de (Stephan =?iso-8859-1?Q?Windm=FCller?=)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:32:00 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Wrong md5sum for pkg_get.pkg
Message-ID: <20070919153200.GD31930@speutel.de>

Hello!

When I folllow the steps in http://www.blastwave.org/howto.html and
download pkg-get manually to check the md5sum, I get:

| # digest -v -a md5 pkg_get.pkg
| md5 (pkg_get.pkg) = d79b81b96687d39920c690fe2c3ea76d

This seems not to match with the key in the document. Has there been an
update of pkg_get?

- Stephan
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From james at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 17:32:14 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:32:14 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 19/09/07, 15:40:00, Stefan Teleman <stefan.teleman at gmail.com> wrote
regarding Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> > > Ridiculous.  Lots of wasted effort for a minority too scared,
> > > cheap, lazy, bothered, or skilled to move off an obsolete
> > > platform.
> >
> > Thank you for your vote of confidence in my ability.  Let me guess,
> > you don't work in the Public Relations Department of Sun.

> No, he doesn't. If you want to talk to someone in the PR Department at
> Sun, why don't you give them a call and chat them up.

I trust they would not be so insulting.


> Here's the hard truth about your current abilities insofar as Solaris
> 10 is concerned

All I said was I can't see any profit in spending money upgrading
systems that work, others have agreed.


> If you were a MS Windows shop, you would be developing on Windows
> 2000. If you were a Mac shop, you would be developing on Mac OS 9.

I'm not.


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 17:36:23 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:36:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <35760.72.39.216.186.1190216183.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On 19/09/07, 15:40:00, Stefan Teleman <stefan.teleman at gmail.com> wrote
> regarding Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>> > > Ridiculous.  Lots of wasted effort for a minority too scared,
>> > > cheap, lazy, bothered, or skilled to move off an obsolete
>> > > platform.
>> >
>> > Thank you for your vote of confidence in my ability.  Let me guess,
>> > you don't work in the Public Relations Department of Sun.
>
>> No, he doesn't. If you want to talk to someone in the PR Department at
>> Sun, why don't you give them a call and chat them up.
>
> I trust they would not be so insulting.
>
>
>> Here's the hard truth about your current abilities insofar as Solaris
>> 10 is concerned
>
> All I said was I can't see any profit in spending money upgrading
> systems that work, others have agreed.
>
>
>> If you were a MS Windows shop, you would be developing on Windows
>> 2000. If you were a Mac shop, you would be developing on Mac OS 9.
>
> I'm not.

Did you guys read this ?
 http://lists.blastwave.org/pipermail/users/2007-September/005570.html

It is more forward looking. I don't want to squabble in the trenches over
something that should be abundantly clear by now. Solaris 8 is quickly
becoming a dead user base and those are numbers from our actual user
downloads. This is not fabrication or conjecture. The data is there to look
at and you really should look at it. I certainly did.

A little *healthy* debate would be a good thing.

Dennis


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 17:40:39 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:40:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49429.72.39.216.186.1190216439.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On 9/19/07, Ben Taylor <ben.taylor at sun.com> wrote:
>> But I'm willing to let the minority keep the bloat factor high
>> just to support thier little patch.
>
> What is the bloat you and others have mentioned?
>

Install Solaris 8 onto a fresh box.

Then install pkg-get along with CSWcommon and CSWopenssl and CSWwget.

Then pkg-get -i gnome

You will see a massive pile of software being installed. Massive.

A lot of that *may* be duplications in Solaris 10.

Please read :

  http://lists.blastwave.org/pipermail/users/2007-September/005570.html

I would like to hear your comments.

Dennis



From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 17:21:15 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:21:15 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 11:32, James Lee wrote:

> I trust they would not be so insulting.

You should not feel insulted just because someone calls you on your 
apparent unwillingness to learn something new. This might happen to 
you in a job interview. It probably will.

> I'm not.

Nope, you're not. You're developing on a 7 years old version of 
Solaris which is EOF'ed, obsolete and of no interest to anyone except 
those who are unwilling to learn something new.

Blastwave's reliance on an obsolete operating system is Blastwave's 
guaranteed obsolescence. Make sure it doesn't become yours as well.

--Stefan

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 17:43:23 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:43:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <55426.72.39.216.186.1190216603.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> shuttlebox wrote:
>
>>On 9/19/07, Ben Taylor <ben.taylor at sun.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>But I'm willing to let the minority keep the bloat factor high
>>>just to support thier little patch.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>What is the bloat you and others have mentioned?
>>
>>
>>
> The bloat is the duplication of packages in blastwave that
> are in Solaris, especially as you move from 8 to 9 to 10 to
> 11 (nevada).
>
> So if you want to run the latest gnome on SOlaris 10 from
> blastwave, you will likely have almost the entire Gnome tree
> duplicated.  I understand that it is important to have a separate
> tool chain not dependent on Sun.  However, what turns out is
> minimal bloat on Solaris 8 turns into maximum bloat on Solaris 10.
>
> Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
> to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
> dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
> be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
> go get more to resolve dependencies.
>
> In a better version of blastwave, the check for dependencies
> would happen before downloading the first package.  In a standalone
> environment, the existing model could be used.
>

Ben, I think that we had spoken about a small PostgreSQL client that could
query a database server for the required dependency information.  Do you
think that we could put together a prototype ? I am certainly ready to
create the database server and the query would not be all that complex.
Recursive perhaps  but not complex.

Dennis


From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 17:39:10 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:39:10 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <49429.72.39.216.186.1190216439.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<49429.72.39.216.186.1190216439.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <200709191139.10783.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 11:40, Dennis Clarke wrote:

> 
http://lists.blastwave.org/pipermail/users/2007-September/005570.html
>
> I would like to hear your comments.

Dennis,

This has been discussed here, and  on IRC, and in emails, many times 
before. The problem here is that the prevailing mentality is 
*still* "Solaris 8 is good enough because subsequent versions are 
BC". 

As long as this "Solaris 8 is good enough" mentality remains the 
prevailing one, there's very little point -- insofar as i am 
concerned -- in rehashing what has already been hashed, rehashed and 
re-rehashed countless times.

--Stefan

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From dmcmullan at mac.com  Wed Sep 19 18:00:11 2007
From: dmcmullan at mac.com (Donal McMullan)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 04:00:11 +1200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>

I think it was Joel Spolsky who pointed out that code as it gets old,
doesn't rust. In fact, the longer it runs without incident, the more
trusted and valued it becomes.

If you want to spend your time replacing battle hardened, proven
solutions with the shiniest new thing (in other words, fixing things
that aren't broken) it's probably because you're too young to
appreciate how precious a commodity time is.

And I find that charming.

Donal


On 20 Sep 2007, at 03:21, Stefan Teleman wrote:

> On Wednesday 19 September 2007 11:32, James Lee wrote:
>
>> I trust they would not be so insulting.
>
> You should not feel insulted just because someone calls you on your
> apparent unwillingness to learn something new. This might happen to
> you in a job interview. It probably will.
>
>> I'm not.
>
> Nope, you're not. You're developing on a 7 years old version of
> Solaris which is EOF'ed, obsolete and of no interest to anyone except
> those who are unwilling to learn something new.
>
> Blastwave's reliance on an obsolete operating system is Blastwave's
> guaranteed obsolescence. Make sure it doesn't become yours as well.
>
> --Stefan
>
> -- 
> Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
> KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
> stefan.teleman at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users



From james at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 18:03:31 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:03:31 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070919.16033100.3997691140@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 19/09/07, 16:21:15, Stefan Teleman <stefan.teleman at gmail.com> wrote
regarding Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> > I trust they would not be so insulting.

> You should not feel insulted just because someone calls you on your
> apparent unwillingness to learn something new. This might happen to
> you in a job interview. It probably will.

I use Solaris 10.

Perhaps I'm disappointed that my reasons have not been listen to:
that there is no profit in implement something new for the sake of
it, because "it's advanced" or "runs on USIV+" when I don't have
USIV+.


> > I'm not.

> Nope, you're not. You're developing on a 7 years old version of
> Solaris

I don't develop for Solaris 8.


> which is EOF'ed, obsolete and

And still works.  Sun is at fault for not making it rubbish
in the first place.


> of no interest to anyone except
> those who are unwilling to learn something new.

I am constantly learning new things, what part of "it costs me
money" did you not hear?

Can we get back to how Solaris 8 support affects Solaris 10?
The 2 reasons Ben Taylor gave being void, any others?





James.


From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 17:50:23 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 11:50:23 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
Message-ID: <200709191150.23981.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 12:00, Donal McMullan wrote:

> If you want to spend your time replacing battle hardened, proven
> solutions with the shiniest new thing (in other words, fixing
> things that aren't broken) it's probably because you're too young
> to appreciate how precious a commodity time is.

You should not make assumptions either about my age, or my experience.

I do not make such about yours, although i would venture a guess, and 
posit that you are a Solaris 8 sysadmin, hanging for dear life on the 
last 280R space heaters in the datacenter.

You seem not to have the time, or interest, in keeping up with the 
evolving demands of your profession. I think you have a problem.

--Stefan

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 18:09:13 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:09:13 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070919.16033100.3997691140@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.16033100.3997691140@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200709191209.14626.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 12:03, James Lee wrote:
> On 19/09/07, 16:21:15, Stefan Teleman <stefan.teleman at gmail.com>
> wrote
>
> regarding Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
> > > I trust they would not be so insulting.
> >
> > You should not feel insulted just because someone calls you on
> > your apparent unwillingness to learn something new. This might
> > happen to you in a job interview. It probably will.
>
> I use Solaris 10.

Good for you. Have a cookie.

> Perhaps I'm disappointed that my reasons have not been listen to:
> that there is no profit in implement something new for the sake of
> it, because "it's advanced" or "runs on USIV+" when I don't have
> USIV+.

Get one.

> And still works.  Sun is at fault for not making it rubbish
> in the first place.

SunOS 4.2 still works too.

> I am constantly learning new things, what part of "it costs me
> money" did you not hear?

I can't hear you. You are typing on your keyboard, and you are not in 
the same room as i am. I can't hear the clicking of your keyboard 
from here.

> Can we get back to how Solaris 8 support affects Solaris 10?
> The 2 reasons Ben Taylor gave being void, any others?

I'm not interested in support. I don't answer phones listening to user 
complaints for a living.

Your Voiding Powers make me shake in fear.

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 18:32:17 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:32:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191139.10783.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<49429.72.39.216.186.1190216439.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<200709191139.10783.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44279.72.39.216.186.1190219537.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On Wednesday 19 September 2007 11:40, Dennis Clarke wrote:
>>
> http://lists.blastwave.org/pipermail/users/2007-September/005570.html
>>
>> I would like to hear your comments.
>
> Dennis,
>
> This has been discussed here, and  on IRC, and in emails, many times
> before. The problem here is that the prevailing mentality is
> *still* "Solaris 8 is good enough because subsequent versions are
> BC".
>
> As long as this "Solaris 8 is good enough" mentality remains the
> prevailing one, there's very little point -- insofar as i am
> concerned -- in rehashing what has already been hashed, rehashed and
> re-rehashed countless times.

  That message from me was rather clear.

  I want to lock the Solaris 8 tree into a frozen state by January the 1st
of 2008 and begin working on Solaris 10 build machines by that time. This
is a simple business decision and what is best for this project. There may
be those that feel that Solaris 8 works just fine and they are right. It
does work just fine. It is also past its Last Ship Date and we have
provided five years worth of software for its users.

  Back in 2002 we did not start with Solaris 2.5.1 as out platform of
choice. No one will question that Solaris 2.5.1 was a fine release and
that there was still plenty of it out there in the market back in 2000. By
2002 we could see Solaris 2.5.1 was going away and so were the sun4m
production machines.

  It just makes no sense for this project to lock itself to Solaris 8 for
another year.

  For one more quarter, fine, I have no issue with that.

  Enough is enough.

  If there are people that see value in creating SVR4 compliant packages to
users of Solaris 10 then I'd like to hear from them. Let me be clear here.
I am interested in hearing from people that see value in Solaris 10
forwards. If we need new infrastructure then fine .. it will be done. If
we need to fork .. then fine .. it will be done.

Dennis



From ben.taylor at sun.com  Wed Sep 19 18:38:49 2007
From: ben.taylor at sun.com (Ben Taylor)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:38:49 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
Message-ID: <46F15099.2060403@Sun.COM>

Donal McMullan wrote:

>I think it was Joel Spolsky who pointed out that code as it gets old,
>doesn't rust. In fact, the longer it runs without incident, the more
>trusted and valued it becomes.
>  
>
And if you've ever been in the situation trying to get support for an 
obsolete OS,
you'll recognize that the first time you have to go through that, you 
wonder why
you didn't upgrade earlier.

>If you want to spend your time replacing battle hardened, proven
>solutions with the shiniest new thing (in other words, fixing things
>that aren't broken) it's probably because you're too young to
>appreciate how precious a commodity time is.
>  
>
That's right, I couldn't possibly understand having worked in the 
financial markets 15 years
ago.  I do recognize, having had the job of coordinating all the open 
bugs with Sun as the
customer, and doing patch management, the hassles involved in getting 
Sun to support
an aging OS and getting problem resolution done.   Due to the large Sun 
presence and
huge support costs paid by this org, several times during my stint, Sun 
had to find
engineers to come out on site and debug the problem because they 
couldn't reproduce
it internally, and the guy who came out was typically the person who 
wrote the driver
or module.

Now, after weeks of limited usability of the systems in question, the 
cost to the financial
org was pretty high because they had stayed on very old HW and an old 
OS.  So I find
your justification just as *charming*.  I never want to be in the 
position of having to
answer why I just cost my organization 50K in lost productivity. 

Ben


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 18:42:52 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:42:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
Message-ID: <50138.72.39.216.186.1190220172.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> I think it was Joel Spolsky who pointed out that code as it gets old,
> doesn't rust. In fact, the longer it runs without incident, the more
> trusted and valued it becomes.
>
> If you want to spend your time replacing battle hardened, proven
> solutions with the shiniest new thing (in other words, fixing things
> that aren't broken) it's probably because you're too young to
> appreciate how precious a commodity time is.

I don't think anyone has accused me of being "one of the kids" in about two
decades. :-)

I recall, quie clearly, working all nighters in the military computer labs
surrounded by IBM System 360 mainframes and new Apollo DN10000 workstations.
It was great fun back then porting old COBOL and Fortran code over to ( ah
hem ) Pascal and C on the Apollo machines. There was this new thing rolled
in one day. It was a deskside clunker thing with SUN on it. No one had seen
one before but we took the panels off and looked inside and thought it was
hellish cool hardware.

It was fast. Real fast.

We loved it.

Over time I was a central decision maker that saw the removal of the IBM
Mainframes and Apollo machines. We brought in Sun. I have a twentieth year
reunion coming up next year and that computer lab is still there packed wall
to wall with Sun Starfire monsters.  I was only there for a few years after
some years in the artillery ( my hearing will never ome back ) and I am
happy that the craters I created have long since been filled and that the
Sun systems are still running strong in that Lab.

We knew when it was time to move forwards back then.

I also know it now.

Dennis Clarke



From dmcmullan at mac.com  Wed Sep 19 18:46:18 2007
From: dmcmullan at mac.com (Donal McMullan)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 04:46:18 +1200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191150.23981.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
	<200709191150.23981.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7CC0CFD1-E3D2-4D2B-8EFB-EF07E2FAB07A@mac.com>


On 20 Sep 2007, at 03:50, Stefan Teleman wrote:

> On Wednesday 19 September 2007 12:00, Donal McMullan wrote:
>
>> If you want to spend your time replacing battle hardened, proven
>> solutions with the shiniest new thing (in other words, fixing
>> things that aren't broken) it's probably because you're too young
>> to appreciate how precious a commodity time is.
>
> You should not make assumptions either about my age, or my experience.
A careful reader would note that I made neither; I consider ad
hominem attacks to be beneath me :P

> I do not make such about yours, although i would venture a guess, and
> posit that you are a Solaris 8 sysadmin, hanging for dear life on the
> last 280R space heaters in the datacenter.
I'm a developer, and OpenSolaris on x64 is the only variant I have any
experience with. I'm currently running nv_72 on my desktop.

> You seem not to have the time, or interest, in keeping up with the
> evolving demands of your profession. I think you have a problem.
I see.

I think you didn't touch on "fixing things that aren't broken" - the
only substantial point I made - because it's transparently correct.

I don't think it's wrong for Blastwave to drop support for Solaris 8,
because I'm not aware that they owe anybody anything. The reverse is
true, and I'm hugely appreciative of the work they do. I cut my teeth on
Linux, and I'm not sure I'd have made the switch to OpenSolaris
without Blastwave.

So - thanks guys!

Donal


From james at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 18:49:01 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:49:01 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191209.14626.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.16033100.3997691140@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191209.14626.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070919.16490100.3345372432@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 19/09/07, 17:09:13, Stefan Teleman <stefan.teleman at gmail.com> wrote 
regarding Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> > Perhaps I'm disappointed that my reasons have not been listen to:
> > that there is no profit in implement something new for the sake of
> > it, because "it's advanced" or "runs on USIV+" when I don't have
> > USIV+.

> Get one.

Free?


> > And still works.  Sun is at fault for not making it rubbish
> > in the first place.

> SunOS 4.2 still works too.

Don't think I can't run Java 1.6 on it.



> > I am constantly learning new things, what part of "it costs me
> > money" did you not hear?

> I can't hear you. You are typing on your keyboard, and you are not in
> the same room as i am. I can't hear the clicking of your keyboard
> from here.

*pendent alert*




James.



From trygvis at inamo.no  Wed Sep 19 18:47:55 2007
From: trygvis at inamo.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Trygve_Laugst=F8l?=)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:47:55 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management,
 was Re:  Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>

(posting as new as the topic is new)

Dennis Clarke wrote:
 >> shuttlebox wrote:

[snip]

 >> Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
 >> to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
 >> dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
 >> be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
 >> go get more to resolve dependencies.
 >>
 >> In a better version of blastwave, the check for dependencies
 >> would happen before downloading the first package.  In a standalone
 >> environment, the existing model could be used.
 >>
 >
 > Ben, I think that we had spoken about a small PostgreSQL client that 
could
 > query a database server for the required dependency information.  Do you
 > think that we could put together a prototype ? I am certainly ready to
 > create the database server and the query would not be all that complex.
 > Recursive perhaps  but not complex.

Please, please, do not reinvent the wheel here! Most of the Linux 
distros has solved this in a very elegant way. It might not be possible 
to compile those packages directly on Solaris because of GPL issues, but 
at least their ideas can be leveraged.

Another option is to look to different, but yet similar dependency 
management solutions like Apache Maven which could provide a build system.

--
Trygve


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 18:52:06 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:52:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Wrong md5sum for pkg_get.pkg
In-Reply-To: <20070919153200.GD31930@speutel.de>
References: <20070919153200.GD31930@speutel.de>
Message-ID: <46539.72.39.216.186.1190220726.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Hello!
>
> When I folllow the steps in http://www.blastwave.org/howto.html and
> download pkg-get manually to check the md5sum, I get:
>
> | # digest -v -a md5 pkg_get.pkg
> | md5 (pkg_get.pkg) = d79b81b96687d39920c690fe2c3ea76d
>
> This seems not to match with the key in the document. Has there been an
> update of pkg_get?

I'll fix that.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Dennis Clarke



From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 18:56:45 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:56:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
Message-ID: <56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> (posting as new as the topic is new)
>
> Dennis Clarke wrote:
>  >> shuttlebox wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>  >> Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
>  >> to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
>  >> dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
>  >> be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
>  >> go get more to resolve dependencies.
>  >>
>  >> In a better version of blastwave, the check for dependencies
>  >> would happen before downloading the first package.  In a standalone
>  >> environment, the existing model could be used.
>  >>
>  >
>  > Ben, I think that we had spoken about a small PostgreSQL client that
> could
>  > query a database server for the required dependency information.  Do you
>  > think that we could put together a prototype ? I am certainly ready to
>  > create the database server and the query would not be all that complex.
>  > Recursive perhaps  but not complex.
>
> Please, please, do not reinvent the wheel here! Most of the Linux
> distros has solved this in a very elegant way. It might not be possible
> to compile those packages directly on Solaris because of GPL issues, but
> at least their ideas can be leveraged.
>
> Another option is to look to different, but yet similar dependency
> management solutions like Apache Maven which could provide a build system.
>

We can at least discuss possible solutions.


-
Dennis Clarke



From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 18:40:51 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:40:51 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <7CC0CFD1-E3D2-4D2B-8EFB-EF07E2FAB07A@mac.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191150.23981.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<7CC0CFD1-E3D2-4D2B-8EFB-EF07E2FAB07A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <200709191240.53061.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 12:46, Donal McMullan wrote:
> On 20 Sep 2007, at 03:50, Stefan Teleman wrote:
> > On Wednesday 19 September 2007 12:00, Donal McMullan wrote:
> >> If you want to spend your time replacing battle hardened, proven
> >> solutions with the shiniest new thing (in other words, fixing
> >> things that aren't broken) it's probably because you're too
> >> young to appreciate how precious a commodity time is.
> >
> > You should not make assumptions either about my age, or my
> > experience.
>
> A careful reader would note that I made neither; I consider ad
> hominem attacks to be beneath me :P

Good to know. Now you should set an example, and do as you say, and 
not as you do.

> > You seem not to have the time, or interest, in keeping up with
> > the evolving demands of your profession. I think you have a
> > problem.
>
> I see.
>
> I think you didn't touch on "fixing things that aren't broken" -
> the only substantial point I made - because it's transparently
> correct.

Truisms are, generally, transparently correct. They aren't necessarily 
useful.

Solaris 8 is EOF. This fact alone makes Blastwave's development model 
inherently broken.

Not to mention the fact that software product development is, 
generally, never based on the principle of "if it ain't broken don't 
fix it". Although this explains a lot.

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 18:43:01 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:43:01 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070919.16490100.3345372432@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191209.14626.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.16490100.3345372432@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200709191243.01924.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 12:49, James Lee wrote:

> > SunOS 4.2 still works too.
>
> Don't think I can't run Java 1.6 on it.

Ah, yes. Java.

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From ben.taylor at sun.com  Wed Sep 19 19:04:13 2007
From: ben.taylor at sun.com (Ben Taylor)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 13:04:13 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070919.16033100.3997691140@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.16033100.3997691140@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <46F1568D.6070600@Sun.COM>

James Lee wrote:

>
>I am constantly learning new things, what part of "it costs me
>money" did you not hear?
>  
>
Can't wait till it costs you money because Sun doesn't have enough expertise
assigned to Solaris 8 problem resolution.

>Can we get back to how Solaris 8 support affects Solaris 10?
>The 2 reasons Ben Taylor gave being void, any others?
>  
>
I have never *said* stop supporting Solaris 8.    Stop putting words in 
my mouth.

I have consistenly said "don't go to super human effort to port 
applciation to
Solaris 8".  IE, if it doesn't compile out of the box on Solaris 8, move to
Solaris 9.   Even so, there are performance enhancements that are lost
because the SW is compiled for a 7 year old OS and 10 year old hardware.
That's what I call an albatross





From dmcmullan at mac.com  Wed Sep 19 19:05:20 2007
From: dmcmullan at mac.com (Donal McMullan)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 05:05:20 +1200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F15099.2060403@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<82AD6F88-EAF9-42FB-854E-E878FBC09F16@mac.com>
	<46F15099.2060403@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <7899B626-A4E9-47C7-B03A-8836D912AAF3@mac.com>

On 20 Sep 2007, at 04:38, Ben Taylor wrote:

> Donal McMullan wrote:
>
>> I think it was Joel Spolsky who pointed out that code as it gets old,
>> doesn't rust. In fact, the longer it runs without incident, the more
>> trusted and valued it becomes.
>>
>>
> And if you've ever been in the situation trying to get support for an
> obsolete OS,
> you'll recognize that the first time you have to go through that, you
> wonder why
> you didn't upgrade earlier.
>
>> If you want to spend your time replacing battle hardened, proven
>> solutions with the shiniest new thing (in other words, fixing things
>> that aren't broken) it's probably because you're too young to
>> appreciate how precious a commodity time is.
>>
>>
> That's right, I couldn't possibly understand having worked in the
> financial markets 15 years
> ago.  I do recognize, having had the job of coordinating all the open
> bugs with Sun as the
> customer, and doing patch management, the hassles involved in getting
> Sun to support
> an aging OS and getting problem resolution done.   Due to the large  
> Sun
> presence and
> huge support costs paid by this org, several times during my stint,  
> Sun
> had to find
> engineers to come out on site and debug the problem because they
> couldn't reproduce
> it internally, and the guy who came out was typically the person who
> wrote the driver
> or module.
>
> Now, after weeks of limited usability of the systems in question, the
> cost to the financial
> org was pretty high because they had stayed on very old HW and an old
> OS.  So I find
> your justification just as *charming*.  I never want to be in the
> position of having to
> answer why I just cost my organization 50K in lost productivity.
>
> Ben
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users


I read a story recently about a Solaris 10 deployment that went wrong
and tanked a project. That doesn't make Solaris 10 a poor OS. It's
just anecdotal evidence - like your story.

You'll note that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", still leaves you
perfectly free to fix things that *are* 'broke'; in fact I
consider the fixing of broken things to be commendable.

Donal


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 19:07:14 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 13:07:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191243.01924.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191209.14626.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.16490100.3345372432@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191243.01924.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41316.72.39.216.186.1190221634.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On Wednesday 19 September 2007 12:49, James Lee wrote:
>
>> > SunOS 4.2 still works too.
>>
>> Don't think I can't run Java 1.6 on it.
>
> Ah, yes. Java.

I hate spawning threads that don't take us anywhere .. but .. Java is open
source now and thus in theory we could build Java on my microwave oven.

In theory.

Dennis




From stefan.teleman at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 18:51:07 2007
From: stefan.teleman at gmail.com (Stefan Teleman)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:51:07 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <7899B626-A4E9-47C7-B03A-8836D912AAF3@mac.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F15099.2060403@Sun.COM>
	<7899B626-A4E9-47C7-B03A-8836D912AAF3@mac.com>
Message-ID: <200709191251.08956.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 13:05, Donal McMullan wrote:

> I read a story recently about a Solaris 10 deployment that went
> wrong and tanked a project. That doesn't make Solaris 10 a poor OS.
> It's just anecdotal evidence - like your story.

I read a story recently about someone who got bit in the ass while 
sitting on the can by an 18-foot alligator which jumped out of the 
toilet.

--Stefan

-- 
Stefan Teleman			'Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition'
KDE e.V.						-Monty Python
stefan.teleman at gmail.com


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 19:16:52 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 13:16:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <200709191251.08956.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F15099.2060403@Sun.COM>
	<7899B626-A4E9-47C7-B03A-8836D912AAF3@mac.com>
	<200709191251.08956.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <51346.72.39.216.186.1190222212.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On Wednesday 19 September 2007 13:05, Donal McMullan wrote:
>
>> I read a story recently about a Solaris 10 deployment that went
>> wrong and tanked a project. That doesn't make Solaris 10 a poor OS.
>> It's just anecdotal evidence - like your story.
>
> I read a story recently about someone who got bit ....

  Gentlemen :

  It would be nice if we did not descend this maillist into the pit that
  opensolaris-dicuss fell into.

Dennis




From sstallion at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 19:17:56 2007
From: sstallion at gmail.com (Steven Stallion)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:17:56 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <41316.72.39.216.186.1190221634.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<200709191209.14626.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>	<20070919.16490100.3345372432@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<200709191243.01924.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<41316.72.39.216.186.1190221634.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F159C4.9070209@gmail.com>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
> 
> I hate spawning threads that don't take us anywhere .. but .. Java is open
> source now and thus in theory we could build Java on my microwave oven.

While that may be true (in theory), those of us who make use of java in
the workplace very rarely step outside of sun's official vm offerings
for very good reasons.

As it stands, SE 5 just now rules the corporate landscape (since it is
required for Java EE 5). However, when EE 6 is pushed out, (most likely
within the next year or two and adopted a year after that) you can
expect that SE 6 will be a minimal requirement.

Java EE deployments constitute a rather large number of total Sun
customers out there. Albeit, it will take a few years for SE 6 to become
a requirement, but that day is coming. As soon as the major application
server vendors release support for EE 6, you can expect Solaris 8
support to go the way of the dodo.

> 
> In theory.
> 
> Dennis
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users


--
Yet magic and hierarchy
arise from the same source,
and this source has a null pointer.

Reference the NULL within NULL,
it is the gateway to all wizardry.


From dmcmullan at mac.com  Wed Sep 19 19:24:13 2007
From: dmcmullan at mac.com (Donal McMullan)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 05:24:13 +1200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <51346.72.39.216.186.1190222212.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F15099.2060403@Sun.COM>
	<7899B626-A4E9-47C7-B03A-8836D912AAF3@mac.com>
	<200709191251.08956.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<51346.72.39.216.186.1190222212.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <59FDDFA3-B816-47EF-9221-F58609FD56A6@mac.com>


On 20 Sep 2007, at 05:16, Dennis Clarke wrote:

>
>> On Wednesday 19 September 2007 13:05, Donal McMullan wrote:
>>
>>> I read a story recently about a Solaris 10 deployment that went
>>> wrong and tanked a project. That doesn't make Solaris 10 a poor OS.
>>> It's just anecdotal evidence - like your story.
>>
>> I read a story recently about someone who got bit ....
>
>   Gentlemen :
>
>   It would be nice if we did not descend this maillist into the pit  
> that
>   opensolaris-dicuss fell into.
>
> Dennis

Sorry Dennis :)




From sstallion at gmail.com  Wed Sep 19 19:34:42 2007
From: sstallion at gmail.com (Steven Stallion)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 12:34:42 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <51346.72.39.216.186.1190222212.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46F15099.2060403@Sun.COM>	<7899B626-A4E9-47C7-B03A-8836D912AAF3@mac.com>	<200709191251.08956.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<51346.72.39.216.186.1190222212.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F15DB2.1040706@gmail.com>

All,

Everyone has brought up interesting and valid points on both sides of
the fence. Just like all of you, I most definitely have my own opinions
on the matter.

Interestingly enough, I was reflecting on days past when Solaris 8 was
first released.

I was a very happy Solaris 7 user; my sun4m was running in its prime.
Any extra bit of software I needed was provided either by Sun or
sunfreeware. If there was anything left over, It was a simple matter to
compile it by hand; Linux was not as popular, and OSS software was still
relatively easy to port.

Like most early adopters, I eagerly installed Solaris 8 onto my work
station. I was floored; the comparative performance was abysmal, the
software offerings almost negligible, and the release brought along yet
more API changes.

I recall thinking the exact same thing many of you have before "If it's
not broke, why fix it?". I rolled back to Solaris 7 and stayed there for
quite some time.

Eventually I moved on to Solaris 8. The performance was still wretched,
but at the very least there was ample 3rd party software available for
use. It was a forced migration, and not a very pleasant one.

This was almost 10 years ago.

--
Yet magic and hierarchy
arise from the same source,
and this source has a null pointer.

Reference the NULL within NULL,
it is the gateway to all wizardry.


From Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM  Wed Sep 19 21:37:49 2007
From: Ben.Taylor at Sun.COM (Ben Taylor)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:37:49 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>

shuttlebox wrote:

>On 9/19/07, Ben Taylor <Ben.Taylor at sun.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>The bloat is the duplication of packages in blastwave that
>>are in Solaris, especially as you move from 8 to 9 to 10 to
>>11 (nevada).
>>    
>>
Wish you hadn't cut off the next part, where I recognize that Blastwave must
duplicate packages because they cannot depend on Sun to deliver bug fixes
to those patches in a timely manner, or new features in any patch..

>But Suns packages are often not the latest even at release and then
>they will normally just get security fixes and no version upgrades
>which bring new features. As you said, Solaris 10 is almost 3 years
>old now and many want to use fresher versions of bash, perl, Gnome or
>whatever.
>  
>
exactly.

I understand this.  However, there is a goodly portion of the world 
(inside and out of Sun)
that complains pretty vehemently about the "bloat".  I suspect it's more 
a marketing problem
for Blastwave, because most folks don't really understand the 
interdependencies with the
modules, or why Blastwave would choose to use a newer version of a 
module over the
one delivered with Solaris.

>It's up to the user/admin to remove Suns packages if the bloat is a
>problem which it might be due to the extremely annoying patch process.
>  
>
And if you're a production server, in the past, removing packages had a 
tendency to
give Sun support a massive case of kittens.  Anyone who has called Sun 
Support knows
the first question out of the mouth of the person from Bangalore 
(typically) is
"Have you patched?".  Only recently were systems "supported" that were 
minimized.

>How would it be better for users if Blastwave didn't offer the
>"bloat", if they roll their own packages or just compile it into /opt
>or /usr/local they will still end up with bloat unless they remove the
>obsolete versions which belong to Sun, not Blastwave? I think the
>question is - who offers the bloat, Sun or Blastwave? To you, it's
>Blastwave since they are installed later but to me it's Sun because
>they bring what I don't want to/can't use.
>  
>
you're splitting hairs about who creates the bloat.  To the rest of the 
world, the duplication
of packages looks like the bloat is created by Blastwave.  Me, I don't 
give a rats @$$.
Blastwave is by far the best in terms of reducing the amount of 
compiling packages I need
and reducing the amount of manual work I have to do.  I size my 
partitions with the knowledge
that I need to assign 2Gb for blastwave software so I don't over run my 
root partition.

>If you rely heavily on Blastwave packages maybe you could install a
>smaller cluster of Solaris to reduce the bloat from the start?
>  
>
I've suggested to Dennis several times that it might be interesting to 
develop a workstaion
installation model for Solaris to make sure there isn't duplication of 
packages.

>>Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
>>to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
>>dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
>>be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
>>go get more to resolve dependencies.
>>
>>In a better version of blastwave, the check for dependencies
>>would happen before downloading the first package.  In a standalone
>>environment, the existing model could be used.
>>    
>>
>
>Well, at least Blastwave handles dependencies in an automatic fashion
>instead of just barfing. ;-) I agree though, that it would be nice if
>both pkg-get and the web site optionally could list ALL dependencies
>for a package.
>  
>
Don't get me wrong, having the dependencies in there is definitely 
beneficial.  I remember haivng
to install something from Sun FxxxWxxx and felt like I wanted to chop 
off my toes after having
to do that dance.

A database that managed all the dependencies would probably be 
beneficial to the entire
blastwave development community in terms of managing that sort of thing.



From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 21:50:51 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:50:51 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>

Some comments

1 - Instead of providing the /opt/csw tree blastwave turns its resources 
to keeping the latest and greatest freeware in opensolaris. The fact 
that opensolaris is pretty up-to-date with lots of packages, though not 
always the very latest and greatest, says we might want to rethink 
things. Indiana also plays into account here.
2 - Come up with the charter statement that details if/when blastwave 
stops providing support for older OS. I've never seen this in writing 
and it would come in quite handy. People would know when support starts 
and ends giving them enough time to migrate. The fact that we're 
discussing this is the major headache not when we cut S8 or S9 support.
3 - Given blastwave is a volunteer effort its up to the maintainers - 
Thats the other email list - to decide what gets supported or not. It 
doesn't matter what everyone else thinks. It matters what the 
maintainers think....with Dennis and Phil owning majority shares. :-)
4 - We still need to provide some solutions to the fact that the 
/opt/csw tree can conflict with other packages. I got an interesting 
email from someone at Sun that said it wasn't the bloat that ticked him 
off but that we weren't linking things in a correct fashion to avoid 
conflicts.



From a.cervellin at acm.org  Wed Sep 19 22:02:36 2007
From: a.cervellin at acm.org (Alessio)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 22:02:36 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>
	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46F1805C.9080108@acm.org>

Torrey McMahon wrote:

> 3 - Given blastwave is a volunteer effort its up to the maintainers - 
> Thats the other email list - to decide what gets supported or not. It 
> doesn't matter what everyone else thinks. It matters what the 
> maintainers think....with Dennis and Phil owning majority shares. :-)

and James too :)

> 4 - We still need to provide some solutions to the fact that the 
> /opt/csw tree can conflict with other packages. I got an interesting 
> email from someone at Sun that said it wasn't the bloat that ticked him 
> off but that we weren't linking things in a correct fashion to avoid 
> conflicts.

can you provide the example, please?
just to understand...


From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 22:15:05 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:15:05 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F1805C.9080108@acm.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<46F1805C.9080108@acm.org>
Message-ID: <46F18349.3040509@yahoo.com>

Alessio wrote:
> Torrey McMahon wrote:
>   
>> 4 - We still need to provide some solutions to the fact that the 
>> /opt/csw tree can conflict with other packages. I got an interesting 
>> email from someone at Sun that said it wasn't the bloat that ticked him 
>> off but that we weren't linking things in a correct fashion to avoid 
>> conflicts.
>>     
>
> can you provide the example, please?
> just to understand...

Someone much smarter then me - At least in this area :-) - said....

    It is far from harmless, in fact it is HIGHLY toxic.  It isn't the
    /opt/csw/bin that it the problem but the duplicate but different
    versions of stuff from /usr/lib and other Solaris core lib
    directories it duplicates into /opt/csw/lib.  This can and will lead
    to very hard to diagnoise problems due to more of more of the
    following (plus some others): multiple different binary libs in same
    process, similar libs with partialy the same API (libldap vs
    openldap variant is one very toxic case), correct API/ABI but
    different build options for same libary, etc.

    The only correct way out of this is to rebase Blastwave for each
    operating system version so that it never duplicates libraries that
    are part of the core OS unless it does so by linking them RLTD_GROUP
    (which it doesn't). ld(1) -B group




From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 19 22:28:03 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:28:03 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F18349.3040509@yahoo.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>	<46F1805C.9080108@acm.org>
	<46F18349.3040509@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46F18653.7030404@yahoo.com>

Torrey McMahon wrote:
> Alessio wrote:
>   
>> Torrey McMahon wrote:
>>   
>>     
>>> 4 - We still need to provide some solutions to the fact that the 
>>> /opt/csw tree can conflict with other packages. I got an interesting 
>>> email from someone at Sun that said it wasn't the bloat that ticked him 
>>> off but that we weren't linking things in a correct fashion to avoid 
>>> conflicts.
>>>     
>>>       
>> can you provide the example, please?
>> just to understand...
>>     
>
> Someone much smarter then me - At least in this area :-) - said....
>
>     It is far from harmless, in fact it is HIGHLY toxic.  It isn't the
>     /opt/csw/bin that it the problem but the duplicate but different
>     versions of stuff from /usr/lib and other Solaris core lib
>     directories it duplicates into /opt/csw/lib.  This can and will lead
>     to very hard to diagnoise problems due to more of more of the
>     following (plus some others): multiple different binary libs in same
>     process, similar libs with partialy the same API (libldap vs
>     openldap variant is one very toxic case), correct API/ABI but
>     different build options for same libary, etc.
>
>     The only correct way out of this is to rebase Blastwave for each
>     operating system version so that it never duplicates libraries that
>     are part of the core OS unless it does so by linking them RLTD_GROUP
>     (which it doesn't). ld(1) -B group
>
>   

Though that should have been RTLD_GROUP


From anthony.cogan at thinkunix.com  Wed Sep 19 22:28:19 2007
From: anthony.cogan at thinkunix.com (Anthony Cogan)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:28:19 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F18349.3040509@yahoo.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<46F1805C.9080108@acm.org> <46F18349.3040509@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9A5D3222-3172-4E58-B02F-7C49F824622E@thinkunix.com>

Seriously, can't this thread end?



From ben.taylor at sun.com  Wed Sep 19 22:34:19 2007
From: ben.taylor at sun.com (Ben Taylor)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:34:19 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F18349.3040509@yahoo.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<46F1805C.9080108@acm.org> <46F18349.3040509@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46F187CB.7020406@Sun.COM>

Torrey McMahon wrote:

>Alessio wrote:
>  
>
>>Torrey McMahon wrote:
>>  
>>    
>>
>>>4 - We still need to provide some solutions to the fact that the 
>>>/opt/csw tree can conflict with other packages. I got an interesting 
>>>email from someone at Sun that said it wasn't the bloat that ticked him 
>>>off but that we weren't linking things in a correct fashion to avoid 
>>>conflicts.
>>>    
>>>      
>>>
>>can you provide the example, please?
>>just to understand...
>>    
>>
>
>Someone much smarter then me - At least in this area :-) - said....
>
>    It is far from harmless, in fact it is HIGHLY toxic.  It isn't the
>    /opt/csw/bin that it the problem but the duplicate but different
>    versions of stuff from /usr/lib and other Solaris core lib
>    directories it duplicates into /opt/csw/lib.  This can and will lead
>    to very hard to diagnoise problems due to more of more of the
>    following (plus some others): multiple different binary libs in same
>    process, similar libs with partialy the same API (libldap vs
>    openldap variant is one very toxic case), correct API/ABI but
>    different build options for same libary, etc.
>
>    The only correct way out of this is to rebase Blastwave for each
>    operating system version so that it never duplicates libraries that
>    are part of the core OS unless it does so by linking them RLTD_GROUP
>    (which it doesn't). ld(1) -B group
>  
>
Not to mention that anyone who insists on using LD_LIBRARY_PATH  or 
fiddles with
crle can create no end of problems.

Ben


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 19 23:10:34 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:10:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] LD_LIBRARY_PATH evil
Message-ID: <45694.72.39.216.186.1190236234.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


>
>Someone much smarter then me - At least in this area :-) - said....
>
>    It is far from harmless, in fact it is HIGHLY toxic.  It isn't the
>    /opt/csw/bin that it the problem but the duplicate but different
>    versions of stuff from /usr/lib and other Solaris core lib
>    directories it duplicates into /opt/csw/lib.  This can and will lead
>    to very hard to diagnoise problems due to more of more of the
>    following (plus some others): multiple different binary libs in same
>    process, similar libs with partialy the same API (libldap vs
>    openldap variant is one very toxic case), correct API/ABI but
>    different build options for same libary, etc.
>
>    The only correct way out of this is to rebase Blastwave for each
>    operating system version so that it never duplicates libraries that
>    are part of the core OS unless it does so by linking them RLTD_GROUP
>    (which it doesn't). ld(1) -B group
>
>
>Not to mention that anyone who insists on using LD_LIBRARY_PATH  or
>fiddles with crle can create no end of problems.

I thought we had agreed back in 2002 that LD_LIBRARY_PATH was evil and too
be avoided.

I generally build and link with very simple environment vars in place
and have had no problems. Even with GCC 4.2.1 builds.

I would like to open up discussions on how we could install a core Solaris
10 Update 4 workstation config and then pkg-get -i gnome and see what
problems have been created.

I can easily do this with Solaris 8 but that defeats the purpose.

As you can tell .. I am making a ham handed approach at moving forwards with
constructive discussions.

Dennis



From magrawal at coba.usf.edu  Wed Sep 19 23:21:53 2007
From: magrawal at coba.usf.edu (Manish Agrawal)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 17:21:53 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] vimtutor bad trap problem when /opt/csw/bin not in
	$PATH
In-Reply-To: <46F123DE.3000503@fzd.de>
References: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
	<46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>
	<op.tywkncjez3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
	<46F123DE.3000503@fzd.de>
Message-ID: <op.tyw6yra8z3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>

But aren't Blastwave packages supposed to just work out of the box?

Manish


On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 09:27:58 -0400, Jens Langner <J.Langner at fzd.de> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Manish Agrawal schrieb:
>> Thanks very much, there are some problems:
>>
>> 1. Every student will have to do this hack in their own respective zones. They are all newbies. Since they don't know vi, how are they going to write this script in the first place? Yesterday, we all used /opt/csw/bin/pkg-get install nano to get an editor available.
>>
>> 2. What is the point of having vimtutor in the first place if it does not work with the default paths? Isn't vimtutor for newbies?
>>
>> 3. What are fresh users going to think of Solaris and vim if they have to first do this hack before they can use a tutorial meant for newbies?
>>
>> The best solution for me is to copy /etc/default/login from the global zone while creating the zone using zonemgr, but I don't want to do it and would prefer vimtutor to just work out of the box with the Solaris defaults.
>
> You are anyway using blastwave and vim which isn't a solaris default. I
> really can't see why it hurts to automatically copy your own
> /etc/default/login to all zones as soon as you create them.
>
> cheers,
> jens
> - --
> Jens Langner                                         Ph: +49-351-2602757
> Forschungszentrum Dresden-Rossendorf e.V.
> Institute of Radiopharmacy - PET Center                 J.Langner at fzd.de
> Germany                                               http://www.fzd.de/
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iQCVAwUBRvEj3pFDGXNZvoo5AQLyPgQAgwJxpnuiJmC+1buum28FCQBQxYLZVlPt
> M50GjoThMB22n2AM5bxq0c4874Y3e770mdIjgtP4JjMTSR9KWF6hVzHEB+v1AHJ0
> Ku8Fphvwtt4aXFjtiBARUmxySMynn8Kb1eeI38YVVdfzUrWzguK1vDxqFjPbZQUt
> NAoIdhARJ6g=
> =w1wl
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>


From a.cervellin at acm.org  Thu Sep 20 00:40:46 2007
From: a.cervellin at acm.org (Alessio)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 00:40:46 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] vimtutor bad trap problem when /opt/csw/bin not in
 $PATH
In-Reply-To: <op.tyw6yra8z3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
References: <op.tywjpsblz3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>	<46F11EED.4010806@acm.org>	<op.tywkncjez3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>	<46F123DE.3000503@fzd.de>
	<op.tyw6yra8z3tnfc@coba-magrawallp.bsn.usf.edu>
Message-ID: <46F1A56E.1030808@acm.org>

Manish Agrawal wrote:
> But aren't Blastwave packages supposed to just work out of the box?

yes, out of the box following the given instructions.
 From http://www.blastwave.org/howto.html:
[...]
Next item is the default PATH for the root user and regular users. You 
can set this in the files /etc/default/login and /etc/default/su. Please 
feel free to be pedantic and set PATH and SUPATH in both of those files 
to something useful thus :

PATH=/opt/csw/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/ccs/bin 

[...]

Anyway, i'm not saying vimtutor has not a bug... it should work without 
/opt/csw/bin in PATH too, so feel free to submit a bug report here: 
http://www.blastwave.org/mantis and see what the package maintainer has 
to say.


From pgress at optonline.net  Thu Sep 20 05:56:26 2007
From: pgress at optonline.net (Paul Gress)
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 23:56:26 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F1EF6A.2020000@optonline.net>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
> We can at least discuss possible solutions.
>
>
> -
> Dennis Clarke
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
>   
Here's two suggestions from me.

Use the libraries from OpenSolaris.  Since it's open source there should 
be no problem.  For Solaris 8-9 and possibly 10, but not 11, OpenSolaris 
libs would be in /opt/csw.  If your downloading software for Solaris 11, 
you already have the libs in /usr/lib.  So Solaris 11 wouldn't bloat 
that much.  Solaris 10 slightly and more for each older version.

My other suggestion is, use different install scripts for differnent 
versions of Solaris.  Basically it would just scan for installed 
libraries, and not duplicate them.

Maybe a combo of both would suffice.

Paul


From shuttlebox at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 09:04:46 2007
From: shuttlebox at gmail.com (shuttlebox)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:04:46 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <625385e30709200004x37df1d0asd413e244b5699c86@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/19/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
> >  > Ben, I think that we had spoken about a small PostgreSQL client that
> > could
> >  > query a database server for the required dependency information.  Do you
> >  > think that we could put together a prototype ? I am certainly ready to
> >  > create the database server and the query would not be all that complex.
> >  > Recursive perhaps  but not complex.

And this would be something for the web site I hope? I certainly don't
want PostgreSQL running on all my servers just for the dependency
handling which already works fine.

Is there a reason why we can't follow all dependencies with the
current technology?

-- 
/peter


From shuttlebox at gmail.com  Thu Sep 20 10:14:24 2007
From: shuttlebox at gmail.com (shuttlebox)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:14:24 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <625385e30709200004x37df1d0asd413e244b5699c86@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<625385e30709200004x37df1d0asd413e244b5699c86@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <625385e30709200114j375be92dw1095ab15c8727809@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/20/07, shuttlebox <shuttlebox at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a reason why we can't follow all dependencies with the
> current technology?

Replying to myself... ;-)

I haven't really looked at it before but it seems that pkg-get must
use the depend file in the actual package to work out the dependencies
(I can't find such info in the catalog or description files). Wouldn't
it be possible to include the top-level dependencies in the catalog
file. That would make it possible to parse all dependencies offline so
to speak.

The first line in the catalog file would go from:

9menu 1.8,REV=2006.05.19 CSW9menu 9menu-1.8,REV=2006.05.19-SunOS5.8-i386-CSW.pkg
.gz 11db5974f3b19b40fdec0d94e66d8552

to:

9menu 1.8,REV=2006.05.19 CSW9menu 9menu-1.8,REV=2006.05.19-SunOS5.8-i386-CSW.pkg
.gz 11db5974f3b19b40fdec0d94e66d8552 common

Even a beast like Gnome doesn't have more than 40 top-level
dependencies so it shouldn't be a space problem.

Phil?

-- 
/peter


From james at blastwave.org  Thu Sep 20 10:42:53 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 08:42:53 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 19/09/07, 20:50:51, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding 
Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> 2 - Come up with the charter statement that details if/when blastwave
> stops providing support for older OS. I've never seen this in writing
> and it would come in quite handy. People would know when support starts
> and ends giving them enough time to migrate. The fact that we're
> discussing this is the major headache not when we cut S8 or S9 support.

Great idea, as with most great ideas this has been done, obviously not
publicly enough.  The statement was that Blastwave would support S8
as long as Sun did (I'm not sure what those dates are though).




James.




From james at blastwave.org  Thu Sep 20 10:53:41 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 08:53:41 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F1568D.6070600@Sun.COM>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<200709191040.02044.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.15321400.3909384461@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<200709191121.16032.stefan.teleman@gmail.com>
	<20070919.16033100.3997691140@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1568D.6070600@Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <20070920.8534100.2053484285@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 19/09/07, 18:04:13, Ben Taylor <ben.taylor at sun.com> wrote regarding Re:
[csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> >Can we get back to how Solaris 8 support affects Solaris 10?
> >The 2 reasons Ben Taylor gave being void, any others?
> >
> >
> I have never *said* stop supporting Solaris 8.    Stop putting words in
> my mouth.

"Ridiculous" and "wasted effort" followed by a series of insults to
S8 users - my apologies for confusing your words with negativeness.


> I have consistenly said "don't go to super human effort to port
> applciation to
> Solaris 8".  IE, if it doesn't compile out of the box on Solaris 8,
>  move toSolaris 9.

These advanced feature to which you refer exist in S10, so the same
support problem will exist for S9.  You have a point but it's not
specific to S8.

Due to the interdependence of software one small fork leads to a big
forking problem.  Currently overall maintainer effort is minimised by
keeping parity across the OS revs, the work is done by Sun and their
guarantee of upward compatibility.

It's interesting that is in the users' list, I'm touched by the care
you express for the effort made by maintainers on your behalf.  Make
sure you include the overall effort factor when worrying about
maintainer workload but really we need know here: how does S8 support
affects S10 users?


> Even so, there are performance enhancements that are lost
> because the SW is compiled for a 7 year old OS and 10 year old hardware.

Can you provide some detail?  The chip architectures for S8 are the
same for S9 so again it's not just a S8 problem.  Can you say why the
S10 and arch binaries in the S8 packages and the specific S10 packages
from Blastwave don't provide these benefits?




James.


From a.cervellin at acm.org  Thu Sep 20 11:13:45 2007
From: a.cervellin at acm.org (Alessio)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:13:45 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <625385e30709200114j375be92dw1095ab15c8727809@mail.gmail.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>	<625385e30709200004x37df1d0asd413e244b5699c86@mail.gmail.com>
	<625385e30709200114j375be92dw1095ab15c8727809@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46F239C9.2060508@acm.org>

shuttlebox wrote:

> I haven't really looked at it before but it seems that pkg-get must
> use the depend file in the actual package to work out the dependencies
> (I can't find such info in the catalog or description files). Wouldn't
> it be possible to include the top-level dependencies in the catalog
> file. That would make it possible to parse all dependencies offline so
> to speak.

i think this is a good idea... Phil?


From pjama at optusnet.com.au  Thu Sep 20 11:48:42 2007
From: pjama at optusnet.com.au (pjama)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 19:48:42 +1000
Subject: [csw-users] Solaris 10 8/07 and CSW. All mozilla prods dump core
Message-ID: <46F241FA.6070403@optusnet.com.au>

Can someone give me a hand here?

I've done a fresh install of Solaris 10 U4 (8/07) and installed various blastwave packages using pkg-get (ie it gets all dependencies)

Firefox, thunderbird and mozilla all dump core when I try to run them. The solaris bundled firefox runs fine.


I think this is the offending segment in a truss file but I'd appreciate any comments.

5386/1:         close(26)                                       = 0
5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/75dpi//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
5386/1:         openat(-3041965, "/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/75dpi/", O_RDONLY|O_NDELAY|O_LARGEFILE) Err#2 ENOENT
5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/TT//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
5386/1:         openat(-3041965, "/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/TT/", O_RDONLY|O_NDELAY|O_LARGEFILE) Err#2 ENOENT
5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/75dpi//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) = 26
5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/75dpi/", 0xFFBF72A8) = 0
5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/75dpi//fonts.cache-csw-1", 0xFFBF7220) = 0
5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF71D8)                         = 0
5386/1:         brk(0x003E1DB8)                                 = 0
5386/1:         brk(0x003E3DB8)                                 = 0
5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF7080)                         = 0
5386/1:         ioctl(26, TCGETA, 0xFFBF7164)                   Err#25 ENOTTY
5386/1:         read(26, 0x003E0D34, 8192)                      = 0
5386/1:         llseek(26, 0, SEEK_CUR)                         = 0
5386/1:         close(26)                                       = 0
5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/TT//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) = 26
5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/TT/", 0xFFBF72A8) = 0
5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/TT//fonts.cache-csw-1", 0xFFBF7220) = 0
5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF71D8)                         = 0
5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF7080)                         = 0
5386/1:         ioctl(26, TCGETA, 0xFFBF7164)                   Err#25 ENOTTY
5386/1:         read(26, " " m i n g . t t f "   0".., 8192)    = 8192
5386/1:         read(26, "\0\0\0 ,12\0\015\0\0 g M".., 8192)    = 3648
5386/1:         brk(0x003E3DB8)                                 = 0
5386/1:         brk(0x003E5DB8)                                 = 0
5386/1:             Incurred fault #6, FLTBOUNDS  %pc = 0xFE3C30B4
5386/1:               siginfo: SIGSEGV SEGV_MAPERR addr=0x00000000
5386/1:             Received signal #11, SIGSEGV [caught]
5386/1:               siginfo: SIGSEGV SEGV_MAPERR addr=0x00000000
5386/1:         lwp_sigmask(SIG_SETMASK, 0xFFBFFEFF, 0x0000FFF7) = 0xFFBFFEFF [0x0000FFFF]
5386/1:         unlink("/home/peter/.mozilla/firefox/r5k5f13q.default/lock") = 0
5386/1:         sigaction(SIGSEGV, 0xFFBF4B80, 0x00000000)      = 0
5386/1:         lwp_sigmask(SIG_SETMASK, 0xFFBFFAFF, 0x0000FFF7) = 0xFFBFFEFF [0x0000FFFF]
5386/1:         lwp_kill(1, SIGSEGV)                            = 0
5386/1:             Received signal #11, SIGSEGV [default]
5386/1:               siginfo: SIGSEGV pid=5386 uid=1021 code=-1
5390:   pollsys(0x00061710, 5, 0xFFBFEB48, 0x00000000) (sleeping...)
5374:   waitid(P_PID, 5386, 0xFFBFE890, WEXITED|WTRAPPED|WNOWAIT) = 0
5374:   ioctl(0, TIOCGPGRP, 0xFFBFE8AC)                 = 0
5374:   ioctl(0, TCGETS, 0x00039178)                    = 0
5374:   waitid(P_PID, 5386, 0xFFBFE890, WEXITED|WTRAPPED) = 0
5374:   write(2, " S e g m e n t a t i o n".., 33)      = 33
5374:   brk(0x0003F490)                                 = 0
5374:   brk(0x0003F290)                                 = 0
5374:   _exit(139) 

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From trygvis at inamo.no  Thu Sep 20 12:34:10 2007
From: trygvis at inamo.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Trygve_Laugst=F8l?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:34:10 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F24CA2.7060803@inamo.no>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
>> (posting as new as the topic is new)
>>
>> Dennis Clarke wrote:
>>  >> shuttlebox wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>  >> Other instances is just the sheer number of packages required
>>  >> to get one package.  Because there is no master database of
>>  >> dependencies that can be querried remotely, a package has to
>>  >> be unrolled, have it's dependencies checked, and then stop and
>>  >> go get more to resolve dependencies.
>>  >>
>>  >> In a better version of blastwave, the check for dependencies
>>  >> would happen before downloading the first package.  In a standalone
>>  >> environment, the existing model could be used.
>>  >>
>>  >
>>  > Ben, I think that we had spoken about a small PostgreSQL client that
>> could
>>  > query a database server for the required dependency information.  Do you
>>  > think that we could put together a prototype ? I am certainly ready to
>>  > create the database server and the query would not be all that complex.
>>  > Recursive perhaps  but not complex.
>>
>> Please, please, do not reinvent the wheel here! Most of the Linux
>> distros has solved this in a very elegant way. It might not be possible
>> to compile those packages directly on Solaris because of GPL issues, but
>> at least their ideas can be leveraged.
>>
>> Another option is to look to different, but yet similar dependency
>> management solutions like Apache Maven which could provide a build system.
>>
> 
> We can at least discuss possible solutions.

That's all I'm asking for :)

--
Trygve


From a.cervellin at acm.org  Thu Sep 20 15:02:59 2007
From: a.cervellin at acm.org (Alessio)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:02:59 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <46F24CA2.7060803@inamo.no>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F24CA2.7060803@inamo.no>
Message-ID: <46F26F83.3070109@acm.org>

Trygve Laugst?l wrote:

>>> Another option is to look to different, but yet similar dependency
>>> management solutions like Apache Maven which could provide a build system.
>>>
>> We can at least discuss possible solutions.
> 
> That's all I'm asking for :)

couldn't we just start by having dependencies specified in the catalog file?


From yann at pleiades.fr.eu.org  Thu Sep 20 15:14:02 2007
From: yann at pleiades.fr.eu.org (Yann Rouillard)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:14:02 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <46F26F83.3070109@acm.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F24CA2.7060803@inamo.no>  <46F26F83.3070109@acm.org>
Message-ID: <1190294042.7562.12.camel@celaeno>


Le jeudi 20 septembre 2007 ? 15:02 +0200, Alessio a ?crit :
> Trygve Laugst?l wrote:
> 
> >>> Another option is to look to different, but yet similar dependency
> >>> management solutions like Apache Maven which could provide a build system.
> >>>
> >> We can at least discuss possible solutions.
> > 
> > That's all I'm asking for :)
> 
> couldn't we just start by having dependencies specified in the catalog file?

This has already been asked in the past.
Phil is the one you have to convince.

At my work, we use a rewritten pkg-get which handle dependancies this
way, except they are written in a separate file.

I put it in the GAR tree but never published it:
http://svn.blastwave.org/trac/browser/csw/trunk/utils/ppkg_get

Yann



From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 15:57:03 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:57:03 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>
	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>

James Lee wrote:
> On 19/09/07, 20:50:51, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding 
> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>   
>> 2 - Come up with the charter statement that details if/when blastwave
>> stops providing support for older OS. I've never seen this in writing
>> and it would come in quite handy. People would know when support starts
>> and ends giving them enough time to migrate. The fact that we're
>> discussing this is the major headache not when we cut S8 or S9 support.
>>     
>
> Great idea, as with most great ideas this has been done, obviously not
> publicly enough.  The statement was that Blastwave would support S8
> as long as Sun did (I'm not sure what those dates are though).
>   

Which date? Last ship date? EOL? EOSL?

http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml



From james at blastwave.org  Thu Sep 20 16:35:31 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:35:31 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 20/09/07, 14:57:03, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding
Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> > publicly enough.  The statement was that Blastwave would support S8
> > as long as Sun did (I'm not sure what those dates are though).
> >

> Which date? Last ship date? EOL? EOSL?

> http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml

2009-03-31 looks like end of support to me.

Phase 2 to us might mean keeping the archive on the mirrors but
not updating, "access to existing".




James.


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Thu Sep 20 17:20:24 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:20:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On 20/09/07, 14:57:03, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding
> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>> > publicly enough.  The statement was that Blastwave would support S8
>> > as long as Sun did (I'm not sure what those dates are though).
>> >
>
>> Which date? Last ship date? EOL? EOSL?
>
>> http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml
>
> 2009-03-31 looks like end of support to me.
>
> Phase 2 to us might mean keeping the archive on the mirrors but
> not updating, "access to existing".
>

Solaris 8 End Of Service Life is 03/31/12

Dennis


From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 20 17:37:00 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:37:00 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>
	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
>> On 20/09/07, 14:57:03, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding
>> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>>
>>     
>>>> publicly enough.  The statement was that Blastwave would support S8
>>>> as long as Sun did (I'm not sure what those dates are though).
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> Which date? Last ship date? EOL? EOSL?
>>>       
>>> http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml
>>>       
>> 2009-03-31 looks like end of support to me.
>>
>> Phase 2 to us might mean keeping the archive on the mirrors but
>> not updating, "access to existing".
>>
>>     
>
> Solaris 8 End Of Service Life is 03/31/12
>   

I would assert that Sun has more resources in the support space then 
Blastwave does and that aligning with the Sun support documents isn't 
the best thing to do. Do we really want to maintain Solaris 8 packages 
for an other 4+ years? What about Solaris 9?

Something to think about. This discussion should probably me moved to 
maintainers.




From trygvis at inamo.no  Thu Sep 20 15:36:02 2007
From: trygvis at inamo.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Trygve_Laugst=F8l?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:36:02 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <46F26F83.3070109@acm.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F24CA2.7060803@inamo.no> <46F26F83.3070109@acm.org>
Message-ID: <46F27742.1010403@inamo.no>

Alessio wrote:
> Trygve Laugst?l wrote:
> 
>>>> Another option is to look to different, but yet similar dependency
>>>> management solutions like Apache Maven which could provide a build system.
>>>>
>>> We can at least discuss possible solutions.
>> That's all I'm asking for :)
> 
> couldn't we just start by having dependencies specified in the catalog file?

That's a good start, yes.

--
Trygve


From trygvis at inamo.no  Thu Sep 20 15:43:05 2007
From: trygvis at inamo.no (=?UTF-8?B?VHJ5Z3ZlIExhdWdzdMO4bA==?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:43:05 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Dependency management
In-Reply-To: <1190294042.7562.12.camel@celaeno>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<062B9D84-EA57-48FD-AA07-E42A66663057@thinkunix.com>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413EDF3@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM> <46F152BB.6000802@inamo.no>
	<56879.72.39.216.186.1190221005.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F24CA2.7060803@inamo.no> <46F26F83.3070109@acm.org>
	<1190294042.7562.12.camel@celaeno>
Message-ID: <46F278E9.5090505@inamo.no>

Yann Rouillard wrote:
> Le jeudi 20 septembre 2007 ? 15:02 +0200, Alessio a ?crit :
>> Trygve Laugst?l wrote:
>>
>>>>> Another option is to look to different, but yet similar dependency
>>>>> management solutions like Apache Maven which could provide a build system.
>>>>>
>>>> We can at least discuss possible solutions.
>>> That's all I'm asking for :)
>> couldn't we just start by having dependencies specified in the catalog file?
> 
> This has already been asked in the past.
> Phil is the one you have to convince.
> 
> At my work, we use a rewritten pkg-get which handle dependancies this
> way, except they are written in a separate file.
> 
> I put it in the GAR tree but never published it:
> http://svn.blastwave.org/trac/browser/csw/trunk/utils/ppkg_get

Please do, it work for me and looks very useful.

--
Trygve


From a.cervellin at acm.org  Thu Sep 20 18:32:50 2007
From: a.cervellin at acm.org (Alessio)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:32:50 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <46F2A0B2.4070200@acm.org>

Torrey McMahon wrote:

> I would assert that Sun has more resources in the support space then 
> Blastwave does

are you sure?
it's not a matter of numbers but ratios: approximatively i'd say 
blastwave has 100 maintainers working on 1000 products serving a few 
thousands users with an average of 2-3 open issues for package on our 
issue tracking system.


From binod3 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 21 04:39:47 2007
From: binod3 at gmail.com (Binod)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 21:39:47 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
Message-ID: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, all

I downloaded and installed all the dependenicies required for subversion
1.4.3 for solaris 10 and
now when i try the command

bash-3.00# svn
ld.so.1: svn: fatal: libssl.so.0.9.8: open failed: No such file or directory
Killed

So, how do i fix this ? WHAT AM I missing ?

My Path is
bash-3.00# echo $PATH
/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sfw/bin:/usr/local/bin:/opt/csw/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/ucb:

And when I do pwd and ls I see all the commands?

bash-3.00# pwd
/opt/csw/bin
bash-3.00# ls
amd64                   gmsgcmp                 gmsgmerge
gxgettext               svn
certtool                gmsgcomm                gmsgunfmt
i486                    svnadmin
gautopoint              gmsgconv                gmsguniq
libgcrypt-config        svndumpfilter
genvsubst               gmsgen                  gngettext
libgnutls-config        svnlook
gettext.sh              gmsgexec                gnutls-cli
libgnutls-extra-config  svnserve
ggettext                gmsgfilter              gnutls-cli-debug
libnet-config           svnsync
ggettextize             gmsgfmt                 gnutls-serv
pentium                 svnversion
gmsgattrib              gmsggrep                gpg-error
psktool
gmsgcat                 gmsginit                gpg-error-config
srptool


I guess i am being dumb here, but please anykind of help will be
appreciated.

Thanks,


On 9/20/07, users-request at lists.blastwave.org <
users-request at lists.blastwave.org> wrote:
>
> Welcome to the users at lists.blastwave.org mailing list! Welcome to the
> Blastwave users list! This is a general discussion maillist about the
> software from blastwave, the people and processes within the blastwave
> project and the users that actually use the software. This is a
> Solaris and OpenSolaris community based email list and thus Linux
> questions *may* be off topic. Everything else is fair game.
>
> To post to this list, send your email to:
>
>   users at lists.blastwave.org
>
> General information about the mailing list is at:
>
>   https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
> If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to
> or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your
> subscription page at:
>
>   https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/options/users/binod3%40gmail.com
>
> You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to:
>
>   users-request at lists.blastwave.org
>
> with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the
> quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions.
>
> You must know your password to change your options (including changing
> the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.  It is:
>
>   chikne
>
> Normally, Mailman will remind you of your lists.blastwave.org mailing
> list passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you
> prefer.  This reminder will also include instructions on how to
> unsubscribe or change your account options.  There is also a button on
> your options page that will email your current password to you.
>
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From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 21 05:24:18 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:24:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
In-Reply-To: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50776.72.39.216.186.1190345058.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Hi, all
>
> I downloaded and installed all the dependenicies required for subversion
> 1.4.3 for solaris 10 and now when i try the command

what do you mean when you say " downloaded and installed all the
dependenicies  " ?

did you manually do this or did you run pkg-get -i svn

> bash-3.00# svn
> ld.so.1: svn: fatal: libssl.so.0.9.8: open failed: No such file or directory
> Killed

I don't know what svn that is.

what do you get from

    which svn

Dennis Clarke



From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 21 05:28:58 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:28:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
In-Reply-To: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <35924.72.39.216.186.1190345338.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Hi, all

Try the following :

/opt/csw/bin/pkg-get -U

/opt/csw/bin/pkg-get -i subversion

That will get you subversion 1.4.3,REV=2007.02.19

then change your PATH to

PATH=/opt/csw/sbin:/opt/csw/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/ccs/bin

then see what happens



Dennis Clarke



From binod3 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 21 06:32:02 2007
From: binod3 at gmail.com (Binod)
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:32:02 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
In-Reply-To: <35924.72.39.216.186.1190345338.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
	<35924.72.39.216.186.1190345338.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <111cdbc80709202132s64f19528q3b2b1b15e89e4b4c@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry my bad, regarding that,

I hadn't installed some of the packages.

I installed by doing pkg -add and all the files that were available in the
blastwave.

Its already midnight so, I don't want to work on it anymore, but I wanted to
know that whether after installing all the dependencies , will i be able to
use mailer.py and .py files or not?

Do I have to do anything else to get .py files working?( besides running
subversion repos. is there anyway I can check whether python bindings are
working or not without acutaly running .py files?)

I just created a /tmp/subversion/repos and haven't created any projects or
anything like that. I ran the svnserve in deamon mode and went ahead and ran
pre-commit-check.py and i got the following messages :

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./pre-commit-check.py", line 6, in ?
    from svn import repos, fs, delta, core
ImportError: No module named svn

Should I be worried?

I will really appreciate your help.
Thanks,


On 9/20/07, Dennis Clarke <dclarke at blastwave.org> wrote:
>
>
> > Hi, all
>
> Try the following :
>
> /opt/csw/bin/pkg-get -U
>
> /opt/csw/bin/pkg-get -i subversion
>
> That will get you subversion 1.4.3,REV=2007.02.19
>
> then change your PATH to
>
>
> PATH=/opt/csw/sbin:/opt/csw/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/ccs/bin
>
> then see what happens
>
>
>
> Dennis Clarke
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
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From james at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 21 09:55:26 2007
From: james at blastwave.org (James Lee)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 07:55:26 GMT
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070921.7552600.3444103117@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>

On 20/09/07, 16:37:00, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding
Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:

> >>> http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml
> >>>
> >> 2009-03-31 looks like end of support to me.
> >>
> >> Phase 2 to us might mean keeping the archive on the mirrors but
> >> not updating, "access to existing".
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Solaris 8 End Of Service Life is 03/31/12
> >

> I would assert that Sun has more resources in the support space then
> Blastwave does and that aligning with the Sun support documents isn't
> the best thing to do.  Do we really want to maintain Solaris 8 packages
> for an other 4+ years?

2009-03-31 - today => 1 1/2 years

Sun supports the OS; we provide packages built on the OS.  We're doing
different jobs.  It's just a date that represents the last time anyone
will reasonably use S8.


I strongly believe we should set a date, one that gives people due
notice, announce it and stick to it.


> What about Solaris 9?

Good question, most of the augments put forward against S8 apply to S9,
(some even apply to S10, eg OpenSolaris libs).

Same rational?  Although personally I've skipped S9 completely so
after S8 is dropped I can start moaning. :-)





James.


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 21 17:18:15 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:18:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <20070921.7552600.3444103117@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>
	<20070921.7552600.3444103117@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
Message-ID: <54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> On 20/09/07, 16:37:00, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding
> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>
>> >>> http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml
>> >>>
>> >> 2009-03-31 looks like end of support to me.
>> >>
>> >> Phase 2 to us might mean keeping the archive on the mirrors but
>> >> not updating, "access to existing".
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Solaris 8 End Of Service Life is 03/31/12
>> >
>
>> I would assert that Sun has more resources in the support space then
>> Blastwave does and that aligning with the Sun support documents isn't
>> the best thing to do.  Do we really want to maintain Solaris 8 packages
>> for an other 4+ years?

That has no bearing here at all.  If I choose to compile gzip on Solaris 8,
and I do just that, then I am happy to report that it builds and passes all
tests and I can even optimize it a bit. It can be released for any Solaris
revisoion from 8 upwards.

If some other package is murder to compile on Solaris 8, for whatever
reasons, then it makes sense to just move over to Solaris 10 Update 4 and
make a release for that Solaris only.  Maybe. Depends on the situation.

This has nothing to do at all with Sun's resources or the resources here at
Blastwave.

> 2009-03-31 - today => 1 1/2 years
>
> Sun supports the OS; we provide packages built on the OS.  We're doing
> different jobs.  It's just a date that represents the last time anyone
> will reasonably use S8.
>

  The word "reasonably" is a tough one to bring up here. There are a lot of
really really large corporations out there running Solaris 8 and they will
not move until they are pushed real hard. They have no reason to move. It
works just fine and is very stable and very secure.

  I would go so far, right out on a limb here based on my many years of
business experience that Sun will be supporting Solaris 8 for as long as
those customers dictate. Its a simple matter of money and some
corporations will write a check for $5M a year for support just to keep
there E4500 servers running for one more year.

  If anyone out there thinks I am completely wrong, and you have been in the
IT business over a decade ( at least ) then please speak up. To me .. its
just simple business. While the number of Solaris 8 users is slowly going
away there will *always* be Solaris 8 users.

> I strongly believe we should set a date, one that gives people due
> notice, announce it and stick to it.

  I agree.

  No more discussion or debate.

  We should pick that date that Sun has set for end of phase 1 support and
that looks to be 3/31/09

See http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml

>> What about Solaris 9?
>
> Good question, most of the augments put forward against S8 apply to S9,
> (some even apply to S10, eg OpenSolaris libs).
>
> Same rational?  Although personally I've skipped S9 completely so
> after S8 is dropped I can start moaning. :-)

So, let's tackle one mountain at a time here. What are your thoughts on end
of phase 1 support ?  31st March 2009 ?

Dennis


From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 21 17:28:18 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:28:18 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>
	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>	<46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>	<20070921.7552600.3444103117@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F3E312.9040206@yahoo.com>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
>
>> I strongly believe we should set a date, one that gives people due
>> notice, announce it and stick to it.
>>     
>
>   I agree.
>
>   No more discussion or debate.
>
>   We should pick that date that Sun has set for end of phase 1 support and
> that looks to be 3/31/09
>
> See http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml
>
>   
>>> What about Solaris 9?
>>>       
>> Good question, most of the augments put forward against S8 apply to S9,
>> (some even apply to S10, eg OpenSolaris libs).
>>
>> Same rational?  Although personally I've skipped S9 completely so
>> after S8 is dropped I can start moaning. :-)
>>     
>
> So, let's tackle one mountain at a time here. What are your thoughts on end
> of phase 1 support ?  31st March 2009 ?

As long as its consistent and well documented. Thats the larger issue to 
me. The date is minor though much more arguable.



From trygvis at inamo.no  Fri Sep 21 18:35:43 2007
From: trygvis at inamo.no (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Trygve_Laugst=F8l?=)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:35:43 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>
	<20070921.7552600.3444103117@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F3F2DF.2020309@inamo.no>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
>> On 20/09/07, 16:37:00, Torrey McMahon <tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com> wrote regarding
>> Re: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?:
>>
>>>>>> http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml
>>>>>>
>>>>> 2009-03-31 looks like end of support to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phase 2 to us might mean keeping the archive on the mirrors but
>>>>> not updating, "access to existing".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Solaris 8 End Of Service Life is 03/31/12
>>>>
>>> I would assert that Sun has more resources in the support space then
>>> Blastwave does and that aligning with the Sun support documents isn't
>>> the best thing to do.  Do we really want to maintain Solaris 8 packages
>>> for an other 4+ years?
> 
> That has no bearing here at all.  If I choose to compile gzip on Solaris 8,
> and I do just that, then I am happy to report that it builds and passes all
> tests and I can even optimize it a bit. It can be released for any Solaris
> revisoion from 8 upwards.
> 
> If some other package is murder to compile on Solaris 8, for whatever
> reasons, then it makes sense to just move over to Solaris 10 Update 4 and
> make a release for that Solaris only.  Maybe. Depends on the situation.
> 
> This has nothing to do at all with Sun's resources or the resources here at
> Blastwave.
> 
>> 2009-03-31 - today => 1 1/2 years
>>
>> Sun supports the OS; we provide packages built on the OS.  We're doing
>> different jobs.  It's just a date that represents the last time anyone
>> will reasonably use S8.
>>
> 
>   The word "reasonably" is a tough one to bring up here. There are a lot of
> really really large corporations out there running Solaris 8 and they will
> not move until they are pushed real hard. They have no reason to move. It
> works just fine and is very stable and very secure.
> 
>   I would go so far, right out on a limb here based on my many years of
> business experience that Sun will be supporting Solaris 8 for as long as
> those customers dictate. Its a simple matter of money and some
> corporations will write a check for $5M a year for support just to keep
> there E4500 servers running for one more year.
> 
>   If anyone out there thinks I am completely wrong, and you have been in the
> IT business over a decade ( at least ) then please speak up. To me .. its
> just simple business. While the number of Solaris 8 users is slowly going
> away there will *always* be Solaris 8 users.
> 
>> I strongly believe we should set a date, one that gives people due
>> notice, announce it and stick to it.
> 
>   I agree.
> 
>   No more discussion or debate.
> 
>   We should pick that date that Sun has set for end of phase 1 support and
> that looks to be 3/31/09
> 
> See http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml
> 
>>> What about Solaris 9?
>> Good question, most of the augments put forward against S8 apply to S9,
>> (some even apply to S10, eg OpenSolaris libs).
>>
>> Same rational?  Although personally I've skipped S9 completely so
>> after S8 is dropped I can start moaning. :-)
> 
> So, let's tackle one mountain at a time here. What are your thoughts on end
> of phase 1 support ?  31st March 2009 ?

How about forking the existing Blastwave into a solaris 8 branch and a 
solaris 10 branch until 2009 and then leave the 8 branch for dead?

The purpose for the Solaris 8 would be to mainly fix bugs and upgrade 
existing packages. I'm pretty sure that most of the developers would 
move on to the Solaris 10 branch, but it seems that Solaris 8 still is 
hanging around, and then there should be enough maintainers to bugfix 
and upgrade a package now and then.

--
Trygve


From iand at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 21 19:30:33 2007
From: iand at blastwave.org (Ian Dickinson)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:30:33 +0100
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM>
	<46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM>
	<46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>	<46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>	<20070921.7552600.3444103117@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F3FFB9.3000202@blastwave.org>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
> So, let's tackle one mountain at a time here. What are your thoughts on end
> of phase 1 support ?  31st March 2009 ?

Works for me (and my employer - one of those "dinosaurs" that still has some
legacy Solaris 8 boxes - although migrating to Solaris 10 already).

If we get agreement on a date, we need it writing up unambiguously and publishing.

I for one am happy to continue maintaining packages until then, and migrating
to whatever new build specifications are arrived at for Solaris 10 and above
when the bell rings.

One further issue is:  What's the date for Solaris 9?

Ian


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Fri Sep 21 19:39:25 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:39:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F3FFB9.3000202@blastwave.org>
References: <148d59250709112235t314fddfr2c003427e057f7fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EE9537.5020401@Sun.COM> <46EECBBD.5020901@inamo.no>
	<36B8E28A6DA27D4A93098150566430880413F7FA@ASHEVS010.mcilink.com>
	<5b5090780709171256i23f2256ei1889de94a0d86e17@mail.gmail.com>
	<46EF1BC1.7030208@Sun.COM>
	<20070919.8495500.95588708@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F1276C.5020601@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190646p682953f6h4633f427ae69f4ce@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F12C54.7060505@Sun.COM>
	<625385e30709190725q338f3ffcuabb24439e60dda27@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F17A8D.7040802@Sun.COM> <46F17D9B.7090905@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.8425300.3258743098@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<46F27C2F.3050808@yahoo.com>
	<20070920.14353100.2531677179@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<41196.72.39.216.186.1190301624.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F2939C.1060001@yahoo.com>
	<20070921.7552600.3444103117@gyor.oxdrove.co.uk>
	<54398.72.39.216.186.1190387895.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<46F3FFB9.3000202@blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <34447.72.39.216.186.1190396365.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Dennis Clarke wrote:
>> So, let's tackle one mountain at a time here. What are your thoughts on
>> end
>> of phase 1 support ?  31st March 2009 ?
>
> Works for me (and my employer - one of those "dinosaurs" that still has some
> legacy Solaris 8 boxes - although migrating to Solaris 10 already).
>
> If we get agreement on a date, we need it writing up unambiguously and
> publishing.

http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml

> I for one am happy to continue maintaining packages until then, and
> migrating
> to whatever new build specifications are arrived at for Solaris 10 and above
> when the bell rings.
>
> One further issue is:  What's the date for Solaris 9?

That link above says TBD so I guess we have no idea. There are rules of
thumb of course.

See :

Solaris Operating System Life Cycle
Sun's Life Cycle Model for the Solaris Operating System
http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/lifecycle.xml

Dennis


From binod3 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 21 20:15:45 2007
From: binod3 at gmail.com (Binod)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:15:45 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
In-Reply-To: <111cdbc80709202132s64f19528q3b2b1b15e89e4b4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
	<35924.72.39.216.186.1190345338.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<111cdbc80709202132s64f19528q3b2b1b15e89e4b4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <111cdbc80709211115t414c6ee1ld37ba97c22de0951@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

I need help and any kind of help will be really appreciated.

1st question - Has anyone been able to get post-commit work hook made work
by using mailer.py ( I am interested in finding if how to configure python
bindings) from the subversion package added from  blastwave?

2nd question - Once I got the the package from the blastwave, ( I didn't do
it in regular way i.e pkg-get ---i joined blastwave community yesterday as I
just started to work on solaris), but rather I downloaded every dependencies
from the mirror sites that were shown for the subversion software in the
blastwave and after everything was downloaded I did pkgadd -d to each
dependencies one by one. So, everything seems to be working fine besides
those python bindings, ( I thought the pkg subversion provided in blastwave
was compiled  with python binded in it , am i wrong? )

After I configured everything properly, subversion just works fine but I get
the following error when I try to run .py files :

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
bash-3.00# svn import -m "Initial import" rad
svn://localhost:3690/HIWAY/branches/rad

Committed revision 2.

Warning: 'post-commit' hook failed with error output:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/export/home/subversion/repos/hooks/mailer.py", line 41, in ?
    import svn.fs
ImportError: No module named svn.fs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I know its a problem with python bindings, but I thought subversion package
had already binded and shouldnot have any problem.

I also tried these steps :

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
bash-3.00# echo $PATH
/opt/csw/sbin:/opt/csw/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/ccs/bin

bash-3.00# svn import -m "Initial import" johnny
svn://localhost:3690/HIWAY/branches/johnny

Committed revision 4.

Warning: 'post-commit' hook failed with error output:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/export/home/subversion/repos/hooks/mailer.py", line 41, in ?
    import svn.fs
ImportError: No module named svn.fs

bash-3.00# which svn
/opt/csw/bin/svn
bash-3.00#

bash-3.00#
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

When I do which python I get
bash-3.00# python
Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, May 16 2007, 19:39:00)
[GCC 3.4.6] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I know I am very close to the solution but just couldnot reach there, so
please any help will be really helpful.

Thanks in advance,
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From pjama at optusnet.com.au  Sat Sep 22 01:10:04 2007
From: pjama at optusnet.com.au (pjama)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:10:04 +1000
Subject: [csw-users] Solaris 10 8/07 and CSW. All mozilla prods dump core
In-Reply-To: <46F241FA.6070403@optusnet.com.au>
References: <46F241FA.6070403@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <46F44F4C.5020908@optusnet.com.au>

Never mind. After finding several blaswave gui apps not working I've completely uninstalled/reinstalled blastwave (I fully sympathise with Dennis) and so far things are working.

Curiously I went through and did a pkgchk on all blastwave pkgs, found 1 that looked a bit dodgey, reinstalled it but this didn't fix the problem.

Cheers
Peter

pjama wrote:
> Can someone give me a hand here?
> 
> I've done a fresh install of Solaris 10 U4 (8/07) and installed various blastwave packages using pkg-get (ie it gets all dependencies)
> 
> Firefox, thunderbird and mozilla all dump core when I try to run them. The solaris bundled firefox runs fine.
> 
> 
> I think this is the offending segment in a truss file but I'd appreciate any comments.
> 
> 5386/1:         close(26)                                       = 0
> 5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/75dpi//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
> 5386/1:         openat(-3041965, "/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/75dpi/", O_RDONLY|O_NDELAY|O_LARGEFILE) Err#2 ENOENT
> 5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/TT//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
> 5386/1:         openat(-3041965, "/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_HK.BIG5HK/X11/fonts/TT/", O_RDONLY|O_NDELAY|O_LARGEFILE) Err#2 ENOENT
> 5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/75dpi//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) = 26
> 5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/75dpi/", 0xFFBF72A8) = 0
> 5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/75dpi//fonts.cache-csw-1", 0xFFBF7220) = 0
> 5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF71D8)                         = 0
> 5386/1:         brk(0x003E1DB8)                                 = 0
> 5386/1:         brk(0x003E3DB8)                                 = 0
> 5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF7080)                         = 0
> 5386/1:         ioctl(26, TCGETA, 0xFFBF7164)                   Err#25 ENOTTY
> 5386/1:         read(26, 0x003E0D34, 8192)                      = 0
> 5386/1:         llseek(26, 0, SEEK_CUR)                         = 0
> 5386/1:         close(26)                                       = 0
> 5386/1:         open("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/TT//fonts.cache-csw-1", O_RDONLY) = 26
> 5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/TT/", 0xFFBF72A8) = 0
> 5386/1:         stat("/usr/openwin/lib/locale/zh_TW.BIG5/X11/fonts/TT//fonts.cache-csw-1", 0xFFBF7220) = 0
> 5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF71D8)                         = 0
> 5386/1:         fstat64(26, 0xFFBF7080)                         = 0
> 5386/1:         ioctl(26, TCGETA, 0xFFBF7164)                   Err#25 ENOTTY
> 5386/1:         read(26, " " m i n g . t t f "   0".., 8192)    = 8192
> 5386/1:         read(26, "\0\0\0 ,12\0\015\0\0 g M".., 8192)    = 3648
> 5386/1:         brk(0x003E3DB8)                                 = 0
> 5386/1:         brk(0x003E5DB8)                                 = 0
> 5386/1:             Incurred fault #6, FLTBOUNDS  %pc = 0xFE3C30B4
> 5386/1:               siginfo: SIGSEGV SEGV_MAPERR addr=0x00000000
> 5386/1:             Received signal #11, SIGSEGV [caught]
> 5386/1:               siginfo: SIGSEGV SEGV_MAPERR addr=0x00000000
> 5386/1:         lwp_sigmask(SIG_SETMASK, 0xFFBFFEFF, 0x0000FFF7) = 0xFFBFFEFF [0x0000FFFF]
> 5386/1:         unlink("/home/peter/.mozilla/firefox/r5k5f13q.default/lock") = 0
> 5386/1:         sigaction(SIGSEGV, 0xFFBF4B80, 0x00000000)      = 0
> 5386/1:         lwp_sigmask(SIG_SETMASK, 0xFFBFFAFF, 0x0000FFF7) = 0xFFBFFEFF [0x0000FFFF]
> 5386/1:         lwp_kill(1, SIGSEGV)                            = 0
> 5386/1:             Received signal #11, SIGSEGV [default]
> 5386/1:               siginfo: SIGSEGV pid=5386 uid=1021 code=-1
> 5390:   pollsys(0x00061710, 5, 0xFFBFEB48, 0x00000000) (sleeping...)
> 5374:   waitid(P_PID, 5386, 0xFFBFE890, WEXITED|WTRAPPED|WNOWAIT) = 0
> 5374:   ioctl(0, TIOCGPGRP, 0xFFBFE8AC)                 = 0
> 5374:   ioctl(0, TCGETS, 0x00039178)                    = 0
> 5374:   waitid(P_PID, 5386, 0xFFBFE890, WEXITED|WTRAPPED) = 0
> 5374:   write(2, " S e g m e n t a t i o n".., 33)      = 33
> 5374:   brk(0x0003F490)                                 = 0
> 5374:   brk(0x0003F290)                                 = 0
> 5374:   _exit(139) 
> 

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From dclarke at blastwave.org  Sat Sep 22 01:19:03 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:19:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Solaris 10 8/07 and CSW. All mozilla prods dump core
In-Reply-To: <46F44F4C.5020908@optusnet.com.au>
References: <46F241FA.6070403@optusnet.com.au>
	<46F44F4C.5020908@optusnet.com.au>
Message-ID: <43233.72.39.216.186.1190416743.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Never mind. After finding several blaswave gui apps not working I've
> completely uninstalled/reinstalled blastwave (I fully sympathise with
> Dennis) and so far things are working.

  Thank you ... I think that James and I sometimes go blind running package
adds and removals on bare bone Solaris 8 systems.  It does take hours to
do.

> Curiously I went through and did a pkgchk on all blastwave pkgs, found 1
> that looked a bit dodgey, reinstalled it but this didn't fix the problem.

So we still have mystery core dumps happening ?

Dennis Clarke



From maybird1776 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 15:31:02 2007
From: maybird1776 at yahoo.com (ken mays)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 06:31:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <46F3E312.9040206@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <29494.7696.qm@web34205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

>   
>>> What about Solaris 9?
>>>       
>> Good question, most of the augments put forward
against S8 apply to
 S9,
>> (some even apply to S10, eg OpenSolaris libs).
>>
>> Same rational?  Although personally I've skipped S9
completely so
>> after S8 is dropped I can start moaning. :-)

Geez, we still on this subject? (smile)

I think Sun only support OS releases as far back as
Solaris 7 now. They ended some of their support of the
older OS releases around Mar 2007. Check on that.

I think Solaris 8 is next on the list, but Solaris 7
will end before that (I expect Y2008 will be the end
of Solaris 7 support). Sun mention it supports up to
three OS releases so I expect Solaris 8 support until
"Solaris 11" is officially released.

Why are companies sticking with Solaris 8? Cost and
support. Also, no need to reinvent the wheel and
limited resources to test new deployments. The rules
of "old reliable car" versus "new shiny car" applies
here (or old spouse versus new spouse).

We could ask Sun the question of why they still are
officially supporting Solaris 7?!?

Let us not get caught up on this as it is good the
Blastwave ISV supports Solaris 8 cause they feel like
it. Again, the point I made earlier was that we talked
about it becoming legacy support (not "unsupported"). 

Sun has moved a few of their products to Solaris 9/10
only. Good business sense for ISVs is to move to
Solaris 10 as the primary support model and Solaris
8/9 as legacy support. But, that is a personal
business choice for each ISV business - even the
Blastwave ISV.

Hey, if supporting Solaris 8 onwards is putting 'food
on the table' for an ISV or Solaris professionals
around the world, then why rock the money tree? 

~K





       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 


From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 22 22:21:56 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:21:56 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Headsup: gaim to pidgin transition
Message-ID: <46F57964.4070102@yahoo.com>

In the near future I'll be pushing out blastwave packages that contain 
pidgin and pidgin-otr.

http://www.pidgin.im/
http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/

No flames about them being late please. We were blocked on some bugs and 
I have a day job. :-)

These are replacements for the gaim and gaim-otr packages. Due to legal 
reasons the program names and the CSW package instance names must change 
and there is no easy way to make an automatic transition.

    * The CSWpidgin and CSWpidginotr packages will not install if the
      CSWgaim and CSWgaimotr packages are on the system.
    * The CSWgaim and CSWgaimotr packages must be manually removed from
      the system before CSWpidgin and CSWpidginotr can be installed.
    * When run for the first time pidgin will migrate a users gaim files
      to a new file hierarchy. This should be seamless to the user
      though, if anything does go wrong, copies of the relevant files
      are left in the users home directory.
    * At some point users may wish to remove the older gaim files. This
      is not done automatically but could save considerable space if
      users log IM conversations.
    * OTR users will have to generate new keys *or* edit the otr key
      file to point to the new pidgin protocol names. This is not done
      automatically as of the last version I tested.
    * Once CSWpidgin and CSWpidginotr are pushed to unstable I'll ask
      for the CSWgaim and CSWgaimotr packages to be removed from the
      catalog.

I hope to have the new packages ready in the next couple of days. I'll 
send an other announcement when they are available in unstable. If 
anyone has questions or comments please let me know.


From pjama at optusnet.com.au  Sat Sep 22 23:18:28 2007
From: pjama at optusnet.com.au (pjama)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 07:18:28 +1000
Subject: [csw-users] Solaris 10 8/07 and CSW. All mozilla prods dump core
In-Reply-To: <43233.72.39.216.186.1190416743.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <46F241FA.6070403@optusnet.com.au>	<46F44F4C.5020908@optusnet.com.au>
	<43233.72.39.216.186.1190416743.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46F586A4.30809@optusnet.com.au>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
<snip>
>
>> Curiously I went through and did a pkgchk on all blastwave pkgs, found 1
>> that looked a bit dodgey, reinstalled it but this didn't fix the problem.
>
> So we still have mystery core dumps happening ?

No, no more problems. The full pkg reinstall fixed it. I was just outlining the above as one of the measures I took to initially solve the problem.

>
> Dennis Clarke
>

Cheers
Peter


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From brandorr at opensolaris.org  Sun Sep 23 04:18:47 2007
From: brandorr at opensolaris.org (Brandorr)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 22:18:47 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <29494.7696.qm@web34205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <46F3E312.9040206@yahoo.com>
	<29494.7696.qm@web34205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5b5090780709221918o567ea05wfcebd10f7ecd2bcd@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/22/07, ken mays <maybird1776 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> What about Solaris 9?
> >>>
> >> Good question, most of the augments put forward
> against S8 apply to
>  S9,
> >> (some even apply to S10, eg OpenSolaris libs).
> >>
> >> Same rational?  Although personally I've skipped S9
> completely so
> >> after S8 is dropped I can start moaning. :-)
>
> Geez, we still on this subject? (smile)
>
> I think Sun only support OS releases as far back as
> Solaris 7 now. They ended some of their support of the
> older OS releases around Mar 2007. Check on that.
>
> I think Solaris 8 is next on the list, but Solaris 7
> will end before that (I expect Y2008 will be the end
> of Solaris 7 support). Sun mention it supports up to
> three OS releases so I expect Solaris 8 support until
> "Solaris 11" is officially released.
>
> Why are companies sticking with Solaris 8? Cost and
> support. Also, no need to reinvent the wheel and
> limited resources to test new deployments. The rules
> of "old reliable car" versus "new shiny car" applies
> here (or old spouse versus new spouse).
>
> We could ask Sun the question of why they still are
> officially supporting Solaris 7?!?
>
> Let us not get caught up on this as it is good the
> Blastwave ISV supports Solaris 8 cause they feel like
> it. Again, the point I made earlier was that we talked
> about it becoming legacy support (not "unsupported").
>
> Sun has moved a few of their products to Solaris 9/10
> only. Good business sense for ISVs is to move to
> Solaris 10 as the primary support model and Solaris
> 8/9 as legacy support. But, that is a personal
> business choice for each ISV business - even the
> Blastwave ISV.
>
> Hey, if supporting Solaris 8 onwards is putting 'food
> on the table' for an ISV or Solaris professionals
> around the world, then why rock the money tree?

Solaris 8 is so entrenched in the field that Sun has developed a
Branded zone called Etude, that provided a virtual Solaris 8
environment on Solaris 10 systems, to encourage Solaris 8 users to
migrate to Solaris 10.

Speaking of Etude, might this mean that their will be demand for the
Solaris 8 Blastwave tree for longer than initially suspected?

-Brian
>
> ~K
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>


-- 
- Brian Gupta

http://opensolaris.org/os/project/nycosug/


From dclarke at blastwave.org  Sun Sep 23 05:22:25 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 23:22:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] Why support Solaris 8 onwards?
In-Reply-To: <5b5090780709221918o567ea05wfcebd10f7ecd2bcd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46F3E312.9040206@yahoo.com>
	<29494.7696.qm@web34205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<5b5090780709221918o567ea05wfcebd10f7ecd2bcd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65303.72.39.216.186.1190517745.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>

>>
>> Geez, we still on this subject? (smile)

  It is a good one.

>> I think Sun only support OS releases as far back as
>> Solaris 7 now. They ended some of their support of the
>> older OS releases around Mar 2007. Check on that.

http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml

Solaris releases covered under Solaris Retirement Support, Phase 2

Release   LS Date*  Phase 1 End Date  Phase 2 End Date
Solaris 7 08/15/03  08/15/05          08/15/08

>> I think Solaris 8 is next on the list, but Solaris 7
>> will end before that (I expect Y2008 will be the end
>> of Solaris 7 support). Sun mention it supports up to
>> three OS releases so I expect Solaris 8 support until
>> "Solaris 11" is officially released.

   At this point I have to wonder about that.

   The customer runs the show.

>> Why are companies sticking with Solaris 8? Cost and
>> support. Also, no need to reinvent the wheel and
>> limited resources to test new deployments. The rules
>> of "old reliable car" versus "new shiny car" applies
>> here (or old spouse versus new spouse).

   It works.  Show me a compelling reason to upgrade.
   Really .. bring out a hum dinger of a reason.

   Zones ?   Yep .. that rocks.  Good enough for me.

>> We could ask Sun the question of why they still are
>> officially supporting Solaris 7?!?

   The customer runs the show.

>> Let us not get caught up on this as it is good the
>> Blastwave ISV supports Solaris 8 cause they feel like
>> it. Again, the point I made earlier was that we talked
>> about it becoming legacy support (not "unsupported").

Release     LS Date*    Phase 1 End Date  Phase 2 End Date
Solaris 8   02/16/07    3/31/09           03/31/12

>> Sun has moved a few of their products to Solaris 9/10
>> only. Good business sense for ISVs is to move to
>> Solaris 10 as the primary support model and Solaris
>> 8/9 as legacy support. But, that is a personal
>> business choice for each ISV business - even the
>> Blastwave ISV.

   Not so.

   This is where Solaris users build applications
   for both themselves and other Solaris users.

>> Hey, if supporting Solaris 8 onwards is putting 'food
>> on the table' for an ISV or Solaris professionals
>> around the world, then why rock the money tree?
>
> Solaris 8 is so entrenched in the field that Sun has developed a
> Branded zone called Etude, that provided a virtual Solaris 8
> environment on Solaris 10 systems, to encourage Solaris 8 users to
> migrate to Solaris 10.

  Yes, I read and talk with Marc Hamilton fairly often.

  I'm up to speed.

> Speaking of Etude, might this mean that their will be demand for the
> Solaris 8 Blastwave tree for longer than initially suspected?

Look here from earlier in this thread :

    > If we get agreement on a date, we need it writing up
    > unambiguously and publishing.

http://www.sun.com/service/eosl/solaris/solaris_vintage_eol_5.2005.xml

> I for one am happy to continue maintaining packages until then, and
> migrating
> to whatever new build specifications are arrived at for Solaris 10 and above
> when the bell rings.

That link above says TBD so I guess we have no idea. There are rules of
thumb of course.

See :

Solaris Operating System Life Cycle
Sun's Life Cycle Model for the Solaris Operating System
http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/lifecycle.xml


   The date -- >   3 / 31 / 09

   It is five quarters away.

Any issues with this ?

Dennis


From binod3 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 24 19:01:02 2007
From: binod3 at gmail.com (Binod)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:01:02 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
In-Reply-To: <111cdbc80709211115t414c6ee1ld37ba97c22de0951@mail.gmail.com>
References: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
	<35924.72.39.216.186.1190345338.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<111cdbc80709202132s64f19528q3b2b1b15e89e4b4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<111cdbc80709211115t414c6ee1ld37ba97c22de0951@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <111cdbc80709241001k31291bb3l3ee82fca6656a08c@mail.gmail.com>

Here is what i did to get going.

http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/pysvn
http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/subversion
http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/python

Downloaded dependencies required for subversion, subversion itself and then
got the pysvn and python from this website and then  made sure that  when I
run .py files it takes the python that got installed from this
website, i.ebasically set the PYTHONPATH.

Then all set.

This website provides compiled binaries for solaris .

Cheers !

On 9/21/07, Binod <binod3 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I need help and any kind of help will be really appreciated.
>
> 1st question - Has anyone been able to get post-commit work hook made work
> by using mailer.py ( I am interested in finding if how to configure python
> bindings) from the subversion package added from  blastwave?
>
> 2nd question - Once I got the the package from the blastwave, ( I didn't
> do it in regular way i.e pkg-get ---i joined blastwave community yesterday
> as I just started to work on solaris), but rather I downloaded every
> dependencies from the mirror sites that were shown for the subversion
> software in the blastwave and after everything was downloaded I did pkgadd
> -d to each dependencies one by one. So, everything seems to be working fine
> besides those python bindings, ( I thought the pkg subversion provided in
> blastwave was compiled  with python binded in it , am i wrong? )
>
> After I configured everything properly, subversion just works fine but I
> get the following error when I try to run .py files :
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> bash-3.00# svn import -m "Initial import" rad
> svn://localhost:3690/HIWAY/branches/rad
>
> Committed revision 2.
>
> Warning: 'post-commit' hook failed with error output:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/export/home/subversion/repos/hooks/mailer.py", line 41, in ?
>     import svn.fs
> ImportError: No module named svn.fs
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I know its a problem with python bindings, but I thought subversion
> package had already binded and shouldnot have any problem.
>
> I also tried these steps :
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> bash-3.00# echo $PATH
>
> /opt/csw/sbin:/opt/csw/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/ccs/bin
>
> bash-3.00# svn import -m "Initial import" johnny
> svn://localhost:3690/HIWAY/branches/johnny
>
> Committed revision 4.
>
> Warning: 'post-commit' hook failed with error output:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/export/home/subversion/repos/hooks/mailer.py", line 41, in ?
>     import svn.fs
> ImportError: No module named svn.fs
>
> bash-3.00# which svn
> /opt/csw/bin/svn
> bash-3.00#
>
> bash-3.00#
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> When I do which python I get
> bash-3.00# python
> Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, May 16 2007, 19:39:00)
> [GCC 3.4.6] on sunos5
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I know I am very close to the solution but just couldnot reach there, so
> please any help will be really helpful.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
>
>
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From gw at citasystems.com  Mon Sep 24 19:22:06 2007
From: gw at citasystems.com (George Wyche)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:22:06 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
In-Reply-To: <111cdbc80709241001k31291bb3l3ee82fca6656a08c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>	<35924.72.39.216.186.1190345338.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>	<111cdbc80709202132s64f19528q3b2b1b15e89e4b4c@mail.gmail.com>	<111cdbc80709211115t414c6ee1ld37ba97c22de0951@mail.gmail.com>
	<111cdbc80709241001k31291bb3l3ee82fca6656a08c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46F7F23E.2080800@citasystems.com>

@Binod
Please explain how your thought processes went to solve your problem.

#/opt/csw/bin/pkg-get -i pysvn

was the answer, but something kept you from seeing that. Can you say 
what it was?

George Wyche

Binod wrote:
> Here is what i did to get going.
> 
> http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/pysvn
> http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/subversion
> http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/python 
> <http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/python>
> 
> Downloaded dependencies required for subversion, subversion itself and 
> then got the pysvn and python from this website and then  made sure 
> that  when I run .py files it takes the python that got installed from 
> this website, i.e basically set the PYTHONPATH.
> 
> Then all set.
> 
> This website provides compiled binaries for solaris .
> 
> Cheers !


From binod3 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 24 21:23:37 2007
From: binod3 at gmail.com (Binod)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 14:23:37 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] need help on subversion
In-Reply-To: <46F7F23E.2080800@citasystems.com>
References: <111cdbc80709201939s9133299x849c66bf00bb314e@mail.gmail.com>
	<35924.72.39.216.186.1190345338.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
	<111cdbc80709202132s64f19528q3b2b1b15e89e4b4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<111cdbc80709211115t414c6ee1ld37ba97c22de0951@mail.gmail.com>
	<111cdbc80709241001k31291bb3l3ee82fca6656a08c@mail.gmail.com>
	<46F7F23E.2080800@citasystems.com>
Message-ID: <111cdbc80709241223x4a48d8f9l4badd4d2a3f61720@mail.gmail.com>

To be honest, I don't know why I didn't see that and became so frustrated
for 2 days.

Its nothing but one of those moments.

Thanks,

On 9/24/07, George Wyche <gw at citasystems.com> wrote:
>
> @Binod
> Please explain how your thought processes went to solve your problem.
>
> #/opt/csw/bin/pkg-get -i pysvn
>
> was the answer, but something kept you from seeing that. Can you say
> what it was?
>
> George Wyche
>
> Binod wrote:
> > Here is what i did to get going.
> >
> > http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/pysvn
> > http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/subversion
> > http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/python
> > <http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/python>
> >
> > Downloaded dependencies required for subversion, subversion itself and
> > then got the pysvn and python from this website and then  made sure
> > that  when I run .py files it takes the python that got installed from
> > this website, i.e basically set the PYTHONPATH.
> >
> > Then all set.
> >
> > This website provides compiled binaries for solaris .
> >
> > Cheers !
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> users at lists.blastwave.org
> https://lists.blastwave.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
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From tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 25 20:39:01 2007
From: tmcmahon2 at yahoo.com (Torrey McMahon)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:39:01 -0400
Subject: [csw-users] Headsup (REVISED): gaim to pidgin transition
Message-ID: <46F955C5.6050406@yahoo.com>

Note a big change here. As I was just informed pkg-get does the right 
thing with the incompat flag so this can be mostly auto-magic. No manual 
removal of the gaim packages is required.

In the near future I'll be pushing out blastwave packages that contain
pidgin and pidgin-otr.

http://www.pidgin.im/
http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/

No flames about them being late please. We were blocked on some bugs and
I have a day job. :-)

These are replacements for the gaim and gaim-otr packages. Due to legal
reasons the program names and the CSW package instance names must change.


    * When run for the first time pidgin will migrate a users gaim files
      to a new file hierarchy. This should be seamless to the user
      though, if anything does go wrong, copies of the relevant files
      are left in the users home directory.
    * At some point users may wish to remove the older gaim files. This
      is not done automatically but could save considerable space if
      users log IM conversations.
    * OTR users will have to generate new keys *or* edit the otr key
      file to point to the new pidgin protocol names. This is not done
      automatically as of the last version I tested.
    * Once CSWpidgin and CSWpidginotr are pushed to unstable I'll ask
      for the CSWgaim and CSWgaimotr packages to be removed from the
      catalog.

I hope to have the new packages ready in the next couple of days. I'll
send an other announcement when they are available in unstable. If
anyone has questions or comments please let me know.



From listen at alexander.skwar.name  Wed Sep 26 12:58:36 2007
From: listen at alexander.skwar.name (Alexander Skwar)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:58:36 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] Messages reg. CSW packages during zone install
Message-ID: <1894013.Gi5sUeIsHa@kn.gn.rtr.message-center.info>

Hello.

In the global zone of a S10 U4 system, I installed some CSW packages.
Now I'm trying to setup my first non-global zone on that system. After
"zoneadm -z $zone install" finished, I found a lot of messages like
the following:

*** package <CSWvimrt> was not installed:                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                            
The package <CSWvimrt> is either not fully installed in the                                                                                 
global zone, or the package contains a request script. Only packages                                                                        
that are fully installed in the global zone and that do not contain a                                                                       
request script can be installed when a new zone is created. If this                                                                         
package does not contain a request script, you can correct this                                                                             
problem by removing and reinstalling the package in the global zone.                                                                        

It seems I've got this message for every CSW package.

What does this mean? The packages are fully installed.

Alexander Skwar



From binod3 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 16:21:17 2007
From: binod3 at gmail.com (Binod)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:21:17 -0500
Subject: [csw-users] about the path name
Message-ID: <111cdbc80709260721v2ec5dd33q1b0e5b2d1a52ef07@mail.gmail.com>

Hi I installed subversion from blastwave couple days ago and every thing is
working fine. Its in sparc 10 x64.

My path currently is

-bash-3.00$ echo $PATH
/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/ccs/bin:/usr/sfw/bin:/opt/csw/bin

but when I type svn I can't get it work.

-bash-3.00$ svn
-bash: svn: command not found

But when I go to

cd /opt/csw/bin and then do ./svn It works fine.

I went ahead and added that /opt/csw/bin (which is a global path to my local
user .profile file then svn commands just work fine)

What is going wrong here ? Can anyone help me out?

I think if /opt/csw/bin is in global path it should be able to run from
anywhere without needing to provide detail in local.profile file , isn't
thats how it works?

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks,





 I kept /opt/csw/bin in my PATH variable in .profile file it works fine.
Should I put anything else in path to make it work.
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From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 26 16:30:44 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:30:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] about the path name
In-Reply-To: <111cdbc80709260721v2ec5dd33q1b0e5b2d1a52ef07@mail.gmail.com>
References: <111cdbc80709260721v2ec5dd33q1b0e5b2d1a52ef07@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49160.72.39.216.186.1190817044.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Hi I installed subversion from blastwave couple days ago and every thing is
> working fine. Its in sparc 10 x64.
>
> My path currently is
>
> -bash-3.00$ echo $PATH
> /usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/ccs/bin:/usr/sfw/bin:/opt/csw/bin
>

why the /usr/local/bin stuff in there ?  Did you compile a bunch of apps and
put them in there?  Was svn one of them ?

Instead of askign wild questions ... what do you get from the following
command :

$ grep -v "^#" /etc/default/login | grep -v "^$"
CONSOLE=/dev/console
PASSREQ=YES
ALTSHELL=YES
PATH=/opt/SUNWspro/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/ccs/bin
SUPATH=/opt/SUNWspro/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/openwin/bin:/usr/dt/bin:/usr/ccs/bin
UMASK=027
SYSLOG=YES
SLEEPTIME=5
DISABLETIME=60
RETRIES=3
SYSLOG_FAILED_LOGINS=0


Dennis



From gwyche at io.com  Wed Sep 26 17:10:27 2007
From: gwyche at io.com (George Wyche)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:10:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [csw-users] about the path name
In-Reply-To: <111cdbc80709260721v2ec5dd33q1b0e5b2d1a52ef07@mail.gmail.com>
References: <111cdbc80709260721v2ec5dd33q1b0e5b2d1a52ef07@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <32858.66.90.167.124.1190819427.squirrel@webmail.io.com>

@Binod

svn may be an alias. Do a
  which svn

cd /opt/csw/bin
./svn

would override any svn alias.

> Hi I installed subversion from blastwave couple days ago
> and every thing is working fine. Its in sparc 10 x64.
>
> My path currently is
>
> -bash-3.00$ echo $PATH
> /usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/local/sbin:\
> /usr/local/bin:/usr/ccs/bin:/usr/sfw/bin:/opt/csw/bin
>

If you are intending on using blastwave software, then please move
/opt/csw/bin to occur before /usr/sfw/bin

And you will probably have to examine /usr/local/bin closely for links
which might otherwise override your specified order. For example even if
you have /opt/csw/bin:/usr/sfw/bin, but a link in /usr/local/bin *could*
have an gnutar which points to a gnutar in /usr/sfw/bin NOT in
/opt/csw/bin. That would be an override. That sort of think has given me
grief in the past.

> but when I type svn I can't get it work.
>
> -bash-3.00$ svn
> -bash: svn: command not found
>
> But when I go to
>
> cd /opt/csw/bin and then do ./svn It works fine.
>
> I went ahead and added that /opt/csw/bin (which is a
> global path to my local user .profile file then svn
> commands just work fine)
>
> What is going wrong here ? Can anyone help me out?
>
> I think if /opt/csw/bin is in global path it should
> be able to run from anywhere without needing to
> provide detail in local.profile file , isn't
> thats how it works?

That is my understanding. You could look at the permissions, owners,
groups, links associated with each step of the way to /opt/csw/bin/svn.
ls -l /
ls -l /opt
ls -l /opt/csw
ls -l /opt/csw/bin
ls -l /opt/csw/bin/svn

Look for "strange" things.

Is there something else in
>
> Any help will be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,


George



From stefan.tomlik at tomlik.de  Wed Sep 26 18:19:21 2007
From: stefan.tomlik at tomlik.de (Stefan Tomlik)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 18:19:21 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] unixodbc available as 64bit package?
Message-ID: <46FA8689.6010703@tomlik.de>

Hi all,

I know this has been discussed several times ago but - as usual - 
managed to run into this issue too:

<snip>
-bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/isql -v OracleTestServer
[01000][unixODBC][Driver Manager]Can't open lib 
'/opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1' : ld.so.1: isql: 
fatal: /opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1: wrong ELF class: 
ELFCLASS64
[ISQL]ERROR: Could not SQLConnect
-bash-3.00$ file /opt/csw/bin/isql                   
/opt/csw/bin/isql:      ELF 32-bit MSB executable SPARC Version 1, 
dynamically linked, stripped
-bash-3.00$ file /opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1
/opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1:        ELF 64-bit MSB 
dynamic lib SPARCV9 Version 1, dynamically linked, not stripped
</snip>

The problem is solved for now by installing the sparc 32bit instant 
client from oracle. I consider this to be a workaround, the affected 
system is used to transfer several gigabytes a day between productive 
databases and dwh systems. Would it cause a lot of work to build this 
and other packages in a way that it contains 32bit and 64bit binaries?

-- 
"I can give it to you cheap, quick, and good. Now pick two out of the three"

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From dclarke at blastwave.org  Wed Sep 26 19:28:08 2007
From: dclarke at blastwave.org (Dennis Clarke)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:28:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [csw-users] unixodbc available as 64bit package?
In-Reply-To: <46FA8689.6010703@tomlik.de>
References: <46FA8689.6010703@tomlik.de>
Message-ID: <48496.72.39.216.186.1190827688.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>


> Hi all,
>
> I know this has been discussed several times ago but - as usual -
> managed to run into this issue too:
>
> <snip>
> -bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/isql -v OracleTestServer
> [01000][unixODBC][Driver Manager]Can't open lib
> '/opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1' : ld.so.1: isql:
> fatal: /opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1: wrong ELF class:
> ELFCLASS64
> [ISQL]ERROR: Could not SQLConnect
> -bash-3.00$ file /opt/csw/bin/isql
> /opt/csw/bin/isql:      ELF 32-bit MSB executable SPARC Version 1,
> dynamically linked, stripped
> -bash-3.00$ file /opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1
> /opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1:        ELF 64-bit MSB
> dynamic lib SPARCV9 Version 1, dynamically linked, not stripped
> </snip>
>
> The problem is solved for now by installing the sparc 32bit instant
> client from oracle. I consider this to be a workaround, the affected
> system is used to transfer several gigabytes a day between productive
> databases and dwh systems. Would it cause a lot of work to build this
> and other packages in a way that it contains 32bit and 64bit binaries?

  If you file a bug report against this package then it will be looked at
during bug review. What you are asking for seems entirely reasonable and
in fact, needed.

Dennis



From stefan.tomlik at tomlik.de  Thu Sep 27 14:18:54 2007
From: stefan.tomlik at tomlik.de (Stefan Tomlik)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:18:54 +0200
Subject: [csw-users] unixodbc available as 64bit package?
In-Reply-To: <48496.72.39.216.186.1190827688.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
References: <46FA8689.6010703@tomlik.de>
	<48496.72.39.216.186.1190827688.squirrel@mail.blastwave.org>
Message-ID: <46FB9FAE.7010000@tomlik.de>

Dennis Clarke wrote:
>   If you file a bug report against this package then it will be looked at
> during bug review. What you are asking for seems entirely reasonable and
> in fact, needed.
>   
Okay, done: http://www.blastwave.org/mantis/view_bug_page.php?f_id=0002602

There is another issue with this package, but I'm not sure if it is a 
bug in unixodbc. I would like to keep the libraries and binaries from 
oracle instantclient in a separate directory (in my case 
/opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/) and it looks like I'm forced to use 
LD_LIBRARY_PATH, apart from various other brainf***ed environment 
variables required by the odbc driver:

<snip>
-bash-3.00$ unset LD_LIBRARY_PATH
-bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/isql -v OracleTestServer
[01000][unixODBC][Driver Manager]Can't open lib 
'/opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1' : ld.so.1: isql: 
fatal: libclntsh.so.10.1: open failed: No such file or directory
[ISQL]ERROR: Could not SQLConnect
-bash-3.00$ export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/
-bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/isql -v OracleTestServer
[01000][unixODBC][Driver Manager]Can't open lib 
'/opt/oracle/instantclient_10_2/libsqora.so.10.1' : ld.so.1: isql: 
fatal: libodbcinst.so.1: open failed: No such file or directory
[ISQL]ERROR: Could not SQLConnect
-bash-3.00$ export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:/opt/csw/lib
-bash-3.00$ /opt/csw/bin/isql TESTDB scott tiger -v
+---------------------------------------+
| Connected!                            |
|                                       |
| sql-statement                         |
| help [tablename]                      |
| quit                                  |
|                                       |
+---------------------------------------+
</snip>

Is it an expected behaviour that isql isn't able to find it's libraries 
when you set LD_LIBRARY_PATH? Is there any other way I can do that to 
get the stuff running?

-- 
"I can give it to you cheap, quick, and good. Now pick two out of the three"